I met a woman on a dating website, got her number and started texting her and eventually asked her out for coffee for next weekend. There’s some possible red flags in our conversation, and I wanted to know what you guys think. On the dating website, we were bantering and having a light-hearted conversation. Then, when we were texting, it started with light-hearted bantering but eventually she got more serious and then seemed to start getting an attitude sometimes. She seems extremely dominant and aggressive and I’ve never met a woman like this before. My only experience with women in the past was hooking up with them when I was in college; I’ve never actually dated before. I’m in my early 30s and she’s in her mid 30s. I’m also pretty sure she was running shit-tests and I failed them miserably.

What type of a woman is she? Is she crazy or just very dominant and aggressive? Is the text conversation filled with red flags?

What are the mistakes I made? Does she now see me as weak and submissive and will she start to assert dominance over me or eventually lose interest? Do you think her behavior will eventually become abusive? Did I ruin this already?

Should I cancel the date or go out on the date at least for experience? Am I likely to fail miserably on the date?

How should I act when texting her on the days leading up to the date and during the actual date itself? What should I absolutely avoid?

Here are the parts of the text conversation that worried me:

Me: I saw lala land with a friend yesterday. Im not into chick flicks or musicals but its from the director of whiplash, which is one of my favorite movies. I was skeptical but it turned out to be good. The only thing I didn’t like was that I didn’t have a pint of haagen dazs ice cream with me
Her: ooh that movie looks good. I need to go see it. (whiplash)
Her: what exactly do you define as a chick flick anyways? Romantic comedies? Why does la la land fall under chick flick territory?
Me: yeah, id say definitely romantic comedies. I actually never truly considered la la land to be a chick flick mainly bc of the director and it’s a musical. It also has lots of depth to it. Ive always associated chick flicks with being more on the entertaining rather than deep and complex spectrum. Like some romance films, I think are great- one day, let the right one in (kinda romance)
Me: I mentioned chick flicks bc some people might think of la la land as one, although I know plenty of guys who want to see it and they don’t view it as such
Her: so by your definition if it’s just entertainment value all comedies are chick flicks? To me the term chick flick is pretty sexist and stereotypes women as being less complex less intelligent. But I’m also just giving you a hard time and don’t feel that strong about it…
Me: no, I see what you mean. I think the term chick flick in a way can stereotype women in a negative fashion, depending on how you view it, although I don’t use the term in a derogatory or sexist context. I also know lots of women who use the term in a very casual way or even humorous way, so I assumed that most people don’t look at it primarily in a sexist way
Her: I was just screwing around with ya. Although I did wondering how you were going to respond to that

We texted back and forth and then here’s the next part that got me worried:

Her (30 minutes later): I’m free Friday night or Sunday
Me (around 6pm): are you down to have coffee Sunday afternoon? Say around 3pm?
Her (around 7:30pm): that sounds swell
Her: you have a spot you like? I like [coffee shop A]
Her: scrabble?
Me (40 minutes later): [coffee shop A] sounds good. Never been there, but I was coincidentally thinking either [coffee shop A] or [coffee shop B] (bc I always pass by it on my way to [coffee shop C])
Me: p.s. I think the word swell is swell and I love using it- I just like the way it sounds. Its pretty rare to hear people using old school slang terms so you get bonus points! Golly gosh!
Her: oh no let’s go to [coffee shop B]. That’s a spot I’ve been wanting to check out and it’s better for scrabble
Me: ok cool, [coffee shop B] it is
Me: by the way, I probably suck at scrabble and the only time I actually played it was when my parents got me the game as a kid and my friends and I just spelled out curse words because we didn’t know the rules of the game
Her: well what the fuck is wrong with you man?! . Have another idea? Or are you not a game type person? It’s just a good way to get to know someone.
Me: im down for scrabble, haha. And don’t worry, I wont resort to using curse words.
Her (around 11pm): yeah prime worry

She has a vagina, so expect a certain level of crazy. But abnormally so? naw.
I think this is the problem.

Coffee dates are horrible. That's what you do with a car dealer, or real estate agent.

Go to a quiet pub, sit next to her.
She's trying to make a shitty coffee date fun, and you are doing your best to shit on it.

Go on the date, don't worry about anything except having FUN.

Don't worry about being nice enough.

Don't worry about putting your dick in her.

Don't worry about the bill.

Tell her you are going to KICK HER ASS at Scrabble!

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Jesus christ this is embarrassing. Look at the bolded words. You sound like a man who never, ever gets laid. Or a 40 year old woman. Don't complain about stupid shit when you're getting to know a girl.

Hit the gym, my friend, and stop with the haagen dazs.
Note how her text was shorter.
Note the length of her text.

You: Chick flicks just don't have much edge, or sex. They bore me. (change the frame, show you have standards and are not putting her on a pedestal by not being afraid to speak your mind).
Rambling, bla bla bla, explaining, and a double text.
You: Are you this sassy in bed, too?

Instead, you fell into her frame:

God damn, man! Shorten your texts and stop ass kissing/explaining.

COFFEE? WTF? She said Friday NIGHT.
hahaha she's ripping you, man.
Translation: Are you a man with a penis? Because I'm doing the leading here.

What is this shit? This is absolutely cringeworthy on the highest level. Get your head right.


Hahahah dude, another boring, long ass rambling text full of doubt. She just got so tired of your pussy behavior.

WTF? You are acting like a 17 year old boy from 1952.

This woman is not crazy. She sounds like a strong, attractive and sexually experienced woman who WILL NOT TOLERATE beta males, which is how you're behaving.

Women will get bitchier and more dominant around weak men. You almost always hear weak men say "their ex was crazy". Yeah, that's true, but not in the way you think. Their moods are all over the place, and they seem bitchy around the men they're about to dump, because the men aren't acting like men. These women are normal and sweet around everyone else except their beta boyfriends. Thus the "my ex was crazy" complaining from men with low abundance mentality and beta behavior.

Looking over your text exchange and taking away the "me" and "her" tags, it looks like you are the feminine and submissive one.

Keep your texts shorter than hers, and playful, teasing, and occasionally sexual. Don't fall into her frame traps. Shift frame playfully. Do the same thing when you converse in person.

You respect women, and yourself by respecting their time, and being direct as possible and to the point. This is how you deal with strong women like the one you have a date with. They love a man who gets to the fucking point.

Why?

Because hot strong women who have their pick of men know a man like this will have their way with them in the bedroom, too (ripping their pants off, passionate make outs against a wall, not asking "what position next, honey?") and protecting them in dangerous situations by showing leadership. Everything you say and do conveys who you are in not so subtle ways to women.

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Both of you guys gave great advice, thanks.

Arch- the Haagen Dazs thing was a joke (the stereotype about women eating a pint of ice cream while watching chick flicks). After reading your post, I feel beyond embarrassed; I totally didn’t realize how bad I was making myself look. I’m thinking at this point, there’s no point in meeting up in person because she now has a lack of respect for me and she’ll be even more ruthless in person. Also, since I lack dating experience, I won’t know how to deal with her behavior if she’s abrasive in person.

I was thinking that I might text her some more and not look so thirsty and submissive and feel her out. If she stops being so patronizing, then I’ll meet up with her. At this point, I don’t even want to go out with her anymore because it’s not even fun to talk to her and I feel like I’ll constantly have to keep my guard up. Any ideas on how to establish a more dominant frame so that she’ll actually respect me? Should she also be making efforts to text me first if she’s genuinely interested?

If she doesn’t change her behavior, what’s a good way to cancel a date through text? How do you think she’d respond? I don’t want her to go homicidal on me because I canceled. How many days should I take to see if I can salvage this before canceling?

Also, just out of curiosity, in your experience, what’s the worst that could happen during the date if I decided to actually meet up with her and her opinion of me didn’t change?

I get the idea of trying to use humor to charm women...especially if you have not met them yet. But the way you texted looked like the complaint of an obese woman, lol. So many men talk women out of attraction by trying too hard. Attraction is there, or it isn't. There is no "convincing" or "tricks". The only real trick is to act like a man and not talk yourself out of her attraction for you.

Why would you not meet up if the date is still on? Nothing has been decided, man. Just follow the advice I gave. Talk 30% of the time, and ask questions. Tease, but FUN only.



NO! this is where you went wrong, man...trying to prove something or being too cute. She obviously likes your picture if she agreed to meet. Let that be enough for now.

Don't be such a pussy, man. This girl sounds fun. Accept this as a challenge and goal to improve yourself and go on the date.

I gave you advice on how to be more dominant already. Be playful and slightly indifferent, always. Occasionally drop in appropriate innuendo to stay out of friend zone. If you find her asking a lot of questions and being bossy, be playful and tease her.
There is no "worse". It's a numbers game. I get rejected too. But at least if you go on this date, you will be tackling a fear, and then LEARNING from the process. Stay positive, in the moment, and be FUN with her. Do not talk about feelings or relationships or ex's or how you don't date. Fake it until you make it.

If you feel good vibes, and she's asking you questions, bounce back to your place a half hour into the date for a "movie".

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First of all I totally agree with the above advice. Hit the nail on the head so I won't bother rehashing.

Secondly, you really need to work on yourself, your inner game. Just from this small amount of info I would guess you're a "nice guy" and the definition of an AFC. That's not meant to discourage you, but just how I see it. The good news is that 90% of us start just where you are. Even the "legends" were in the exact same spot you are in in your journey to perfect your game. So take every interaction as a chance to develop and hone your skills.

That's why it would be a terrible idea to quit! Again I get that because you don't have a lot of experience in this so it's a natural reaction to call her crazy and want to bail on the date. But ask yourself why you want to cancel. Because you're worried you already screwed up?

Look at it this way. You've gone back and realized the mistakes you've made with this, and you've come here and got EXCELLENT advice, and with all that in your corner you want to ditch this perfect opportunity to work on your skills? You asked what's the worst possible outcome that could come from meeting her for coffee? That would be you talking yourself out of going, now that you're armed with this new info and perspective.

I get it. You're nervous, and you're not sure what to expect, and probably sexually frustrated beyond belief. You've got to get past all that and fast. I feel that's stressing you out and clouding your judgement.

Probably the best advice I ever learned early o about dating women is to treat them like your sister. Do you have a sister? If you were going to meet your sister for coffee would you care if she's crazy or if she wanted to play Scrabble or if you were gonna get laid? Of course not! Treating her like your bratty little sister is often a quick, low stress, easy to remember technique to keep the butterflies away and reminds you how to stay cocky, funny, and in control. If you're ever in doubt about how to respond to a text or comment when you're skills are still on the newbie level just ask yourself what you'd say to that bratty sis.

Once you can put yourself in that mindset it is way easier to pick the moments to escalate the flirting start the sexual tension. If you're stressing every step along the way you're not going to have the mindset nor the nerve to get sexual when the conversation heads that direction.

Again these are all inner game skills. She hasn't put up any roadblocks, red flags, or insurmountable shit tests from what I've seen. Everything she's done is what the average woman who's showing interest in a guy would do. She pretty much sensed your hesitation and asked you out. In case you're rusty, that's pretty much the best IOI you're gonna get short of her just jumping on you. Your inability to know how to handle that again just shows you're nervous and putting way too much importance on her.

With the little info we have, I would suspect at her age she's done plenty of dating (as one would expect) and she's probably had her share of players and heartbreakers and immature relationships and she's looking for something more, including a relationship where she has more control than ones she's gotten hurt in before. Your reaction has triggered her to think you're that kind of guy. I've learned many women her age are the same way. Her biological clock might be ticking and she's looking to skip games and find a nice guy to settle down with, but one that she can control and boss around. But most women like that still want a guy who "gets it", one who can push-pull, be outgoing, be decisive, and be flirty and fun.

You have got to get your head on straight. What are you looking for, short and long term? You looking for casual sex with as many girls as you can get? Looking for lots of shorter term relationships? Long term with the girl of your dreams? Just want to be someone's boyfriend? Whatever you want you need to focus your skills to get that. Have you gone through the books/videos/strategies that best fit your style and your goal? You've got to study study study! When I was learning I went through and learned lots of different styles and skills and found what I felt worked best for me for my goals. I practiced them every day. I listened to courses every day in the car and every night when I went to bed. I worked on skills every opportunity I had. I talked to lots of people every day with a real intent to practice. I talked to girls with a goal to practice a specific skill and didn't stress the result - the success wasn't measured in number of panties dropped at first, but if I could get my opening done without stumbling over my words. Some skills take 3-4 tries, some skills take months and months of trying. The success you'll see is a direct result of the effort you put in.

To end on a positive, I get the sense she genuinely is interested in you. As much as you feel you've tripped up and dropped the ball with her she still wants to go on a date (and to me an interesting one at that) - that Scrabble date has huge potential ... She talks a big game, I'd make her back it up with a wager (non sexual you perv, like loser cooks dinner or washes the others car or wears something silly in public on your next date) and who doesn't like to spell dirty words on a Scrabble table!

And if it doesn't work out, remember you can work on your skills and inner game with even the worst dates! Go into the date with a mental list of skills you want to focus on (not too many or you'll forget them). I would recommend dating conversation skills since it sounds like you've not been on a lot of dates lately. I would also bring up a false time constraint at the start (which you can always break if things are going well) and don't put any pressure on yourself by expecting sex by the end. You need skill practice and she seems willing to let you so don't go screwing it up by making it awkward by banging her first date and not know how to handle it afterwards. If it does get that far, making out and leaving her wanting more by going slower might actually be a win win if she's how I think she is.

OK that was crazy long. Get studying every day, be flirty funny and light hearted between now and your date, and when in doubt treat her like your bratty sister. Practice and don't get hung up when she loses interest, there's plenty of other girls you still will need to practice on on this journey.

My god OP, can you be ever more apologetic? You honestly take 5 walls of text to explain your chick flick stance, and then compose another wall worshiping her on the use of "swell"?

Aaaaaand, she offers a Friday night. Friday. NIGHT. Let that sink in for a second. And what do you do? You go for Sunday. I mean sure, fuck Friday night drinks. What could possibly come of those? Nah. Sunday 3pm coffee is where it's at. Because we all know that no good story ever started over a weekend inaugurating cocktail.

This woman is not crazy OP. You seem to be.

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My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

I think you're both crazy..


What the hell are you worried about? Lets say you go out with her and discover she's exactly what you thought. A woman in her mid 30's who dating didn't work out for in her 20's and now she's a bit bruised, battered, and scorned, and has developed some repulsive character traits that reflect that. So what? What the hell happens? Are you worried that she's going to physically attack you in such a way that you won't be able to defend yourself or defuse the situation? What exactly are you concerned about? And why the hell are you over thinking every little aspect and detail about something as meaningless and insignificant as a coffee date?

If you don't like the girl you say " Im not into this, Im going to take my coffee and go, Im just not interested"

If you do like her you sit their and play scrabble..

What else need be considered here? Nothing has occurred but a few text messages and a potential date..

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Op you're looking for reasons to not get laid. Whatever fuck ups you've made you can correct. It's Tuesday right now. Change the date to Friday whiplash at yours.

I think more people here have a success anxiety than a rejection anxiety.

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They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.

This.

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Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Arch and FaithfulRaider- you guys have managed to convince me to go on the date. At the worst, this will be a learning opportunity.

Since I shouldn’t text her from now until the date for the purpose of just chatting (at least Arch mentioned that), how and when should I confirm the date? Do I do it twice, like the day before and a few hours before the date? What do I say in the texts? It might sound silly, but at this point, I don’t want her to lose more respect for me.

One of my biggest worries is that she’ll intentionally arrive unreasonably late (like 20 minutes or more) just to test me, and she might even make up a valid excuse. How likely is this to happen in my situation? If she does arrive unreasonably late, how should I respond to it? How long should I wait before leaving?

Also, since I’ve never done this before, how do I handle waiting for her when I arrive? Do I just park my car and text her something like “hey, I parked my car, let me know when you arrive and I’ll walk down”?

Since this is a coffee date, dressing casually is fine, right? It’ll most likely be raining on Sunday, and I was thinking of just wearing jeans, sneakers and a hoodie. Considering the circumstances, would that make her lose respect for me?

Be 5-10 mins late yourself, and if she's 10 minutes late on top of your 5-10, then leave.
Call when you arrive. Since you yourself will be marginally late she should either be there or in the immediate area. Dude.. A hoodie and sneakers? What are you? A man or a 14yo boy? At least get a buttondown, casual, pattern shirt. Or a v-neck sweater.
As far as the shoes go don't you own a pair of casual oxfords or something similar that doesn't scream manchild?

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

Freshly washed jeans, boots (can be doc martins, hiking boots, black work shoes, but no sneakers or sandals), and a button down. If you're ripped, a short sleeve henley.

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The date is tomorrow; I just have some last-minute questions.

When I arrive, I’d prefer not to just take up a seat at the coffee shop without ordering anything, so is it common or generally acceptable to order a coffee for yourself if she hasn’t arrived yet and have a seat while waiting for her? If you already have your coffee when she walks in, how do you handle greeting her and buying her drink when she walks in? What do you say, etc.?