Quick things I believe about myself:
I have great energy
I'm quick witted in conversation and am great at it
I'm attractive and more fit than average (but far from perfect)
I'm intuitive and better than average at detecting social queues and body language

This transpired over the course of about 20 minutes. Me and my boys were in the hot tub at the gym, we have great energy, fun, laughing, talking but respectful and not obnoxious. I caught this cute lifeguard looking at me like twice but paid no attention and kept talking and laughing. After a another couple minutes, the cute lifeguard approached the water with hesitation. Her goal was to get the pool balls out of the water but she didn't want to get wet. She got two of the balls but the others were too deep for her to get without going completely in.

While she was doing this, me and two other lifeguard girls were having a fun conversation about feminism, chivalry and domestic violence. Just an example of the tone of the conversation:

Lifeguard Obstacle: My husband is very chivalrous, he opens doors for me and everything.
Me: Really, where is he from?
Lifeguard Obstacle: He's from the south.
Me: Oh, ok. So he opens doors for you but later that night when you put ham instead of turkey on his sandwich he goes southern wife beater on you.
Lifeguard Obstacle: *laughs* No I don't put the wrong meat on anymore, I've already had two bruised eyes. (kidding obviously, I read her right thankfully)

It wasn't just them, I was having great conversation with other members and my friends. Even a 70 yo guy in the tub with us and some 50 yo indian guy. Kind of disqualifying myself a little as flirting but more so just social and kind.

Basically, there was a lot of social proof, between her co workers, my friends, the other members of wildly varying demographics. We were all shooting the shit having fun talking.

So then, I watched her and cringed playful as she came out of the water (she looked terrified of getting her shorts wet) I told her she needed to negotiate a raise in light of the extra mile she went to get the pool balls.

She laughed and asked if I would get the rest of the balls for her. I told her "maybe, can you arrange a gym membership discount if I do?" She laughed. About five minutes or so later my friends and I got out. She just happened to be next to the mens locker room door.

So I approached her:

tongue in cheek smile on her face as i engaged her


Playfully / lightheartedly engaged her with -
Me: Would it really help you guys if grabbed those balls?
Her: It would be a help for sure
Me: See, I want to help but am a big believer in equal exchange. Don't tell me you can't hook me up, I can tell you have pull around here, I'm sure you're the go-to around here if anyone has a problem.
Her: She laughed and said something like "yea im totally the kingpin roun' these parts but no, nobody has enough pull to get you a membership discount they're too stingey"
Me: Ok, how about I'll grab those balls out of the pool and you can buy me some Qdoba?
Her: (without hesitation and with enthusiasm) Yea ok!
Me: Ok, no shit huh? You're a sweetheart afterall! How would you like to make it happen?
Her: I get off at 9:30 and can be out after that in around 10 minutes.
Me: Ok so I'll just wait right out front?
Her: Yea that sounds perfect!

So.... I waited 30 minutes (because I didn't have a choice, my ride left to Qdoba)
at 10:00 there were still 4 cars left in the parking lot and I didn't see any of the swim personnel leave. So I'm wondering if she had like a meeting or something, or can you guys tell from where I went SO wrong that she needed to lie and then stand me up by leaving through the back door with the whole team?

Not sure what to make of it. My current plan is to not engage her and see what she does. If she comes and apologizes I'll punish her playfully but seriously and forgive but proceed cautiously. If she doesnt come and apologize or explain herself I'll just let go of it and assume she just stood me up.

Thoughts? Thanks again guys, I need some wings really bad though, my friends are either too shy or married. Thanks

How well does she know you? Some girls aren't comfortable leaving with a guy that they don't know very well, especially at night.

Flakes happen.

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You're right about that, I just met her. Thing is it was very playful and she had so many options:

1) Say no.
2) Say maybe tomorrow or something
3) Say you have a boyfriend
4) Say you have to go to bed early
5) Say you're lesbian

Lol there's so many excuses and all the body language was very engaged and playful. But of course maybe I'm wrong and she was very uncomfortable and hated it and just choked and said yes somehow O.o

Most women don't want to hurt your feelings when they don't share the same interest. If they can, they will avoid a direct rejection. That's why flakes happen. Sure, she could have been up front and said "no" or "I'm not interested", but that's just not how things usually work.

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Right, but there are many ways to reject 'nicely' or 'covertly'. Telling me to wait outside with no intention of meeting is so... odd... Especially since there wasn't a hint of hesitation in her answer. It was a playful suggestion (buying me dinner) which could have easily been shrugged off as a joke in a nice way (as if there weren't enough "nice" options to go about rejecting me) but instead she responded without any hesitation and with enthusiasm "yes".

The bottom line is that she flaked. It happened. You can get over it and move on or keep speculating on why she did it.

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I'm hoping someone will have insight on where I can improve here.

As far as this particular girl is concerned; (like I said at the bottom of my original post) if she doesn't engage me on her own next time I see her "I'll just let go of it and assume she just stood me up."

I am wondering what other's thoughts are on her motives, but my main goal here is to see what I could do better.

Unless she responds to this post, it's all a guessing game. Just because she skipped out on you doesn't mean you did anything wrong.

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Here's some insight for you. Next time get her phone number so you can give her a call in situations like this.

Maybe her clock was off and thinks you stood her up. That's a ridiculous example obviously but you should always have a means of communication.

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I'll second this. Its a big thing that pisses me off about game, you want to find out so you can improve, but learning game i guess doesn't work that way. It genuinely is a case of trial and error, and even if you were to do everything 100% she still may not be into you, why...........because you can't control someones feelings, you can somewhat influence them but can't control them. I think people forget that about game.

You're very right, I'm disappointed in myself. Thanks for the response!

I agree. To be clear though, I really don't care what her feelings are about me. My primary goal here would be to figure out what I could do better. Speculation on her intentions is just an interesting side show.

Thanks for the response quietlife, it's good to be reminded of this.

Why do you think she said that? She was setting a hoop for you to jump through, very early in the interaction. What do you think that says about your frame?
Am I understanding correctly that she was asking you (a customer) to help her (a member of staff) with her job? If so why would you even consider this? That's her being a cheeky bitch for sure. It shouldn't even have been maybe. This hoop was not to be jumped through.
So she's set an unreasonable hoop for you to jump through, and instead of knocking it back, you're going out of your way to make it happen.
Yes darling I'm sure it's always a big help when people do your job for you
Your exchange was "yeah I'll take it up the ass, what will you do for me?"
I'm not surprised there was enthusiasm and no hesitation. You do something for her upfront that she should be doing herself, in exchange for something later on that she can easily get out of.
Yeah she's a bitch and she shouldn't have taken advantage like that, but come on, did you really think it would be that easy? Let's say it was cool for you to be getting balls for her. Even then did you really think her buying you a meal would be a proportionate way to return the favour? I think you really believe in your own attractiveness (see opening part of your post) and so think women will line up to do shit like that for you. But let's imagine it was another guy, someone less outstanding and charismatic than you. He asks a girl he's only briefly interacted with to buy him dinner in return for some trifling favour, and as someone else has said, this will involve heading off at night with someone she doesn't know (again, very brief interaction). What would you expect the result to be?

I'm not trying to knock you whatsoever, but I feel you on the fact you want real feedback and not just "well, shit happens". I hope this helps somewhat.

I've always taken this scene as the perfect illustration of hoop theory. Cheeky bitch, just like the one you were dealing with. He gives her shit all the way because he knows she's being cheeky. He doesn't fall over himself to comply. She has to work very hard to get any kind of compliance out of him. And when she does, she has to jump through a hoop first (1.35 "give me one of those ciggarettes and I'll tell you all about it"). Notice no "I believe in an equal exchange", just "gimme".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO2q1iQX2UA

My view is she should always jump through the hoop first. Always. If there's no obvious thing you want from her, just tell her do something that would involve embarrassment for her. I remember years ago I was hosting a party and a woman there wanted to watch something on TV. Again, she was being a bit cheeky. I know exactly what I should have done and wish I had. Just say "okay, we can put it on TV, but first you have to sing "I'm a little teapot", with the actions". Then quiet the room down and be like "hey everybody, Nora's got something she wants to share with you". She doesn't want to sing "I'm a little teapot, short and stout, here's my handle, here's my spout" and shape herself in a teapot? Fine, no TV. I have that in my back pocket to use at some point, cos it's win win. I don't give a shit if she watches her TV program. I give a shit about her feeling she can just expect it of me. She does that, she's my bitch, and that's more important than the TV. She doesn't, I've shown her up and she'll think carefully about asking anything presumptuous of me again.

What hoop could you have set for her that she would have had to jump through before you even considered helping her out with her job?

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Thanks a bunch for this in depth response Don you fuckin' rock, thing is I was consciously being careful of jumping through her hoop from the beginning that's why I originally declined. But I think you're right and the way I handled it even still made me seem like a tool. At first I thought I handled it in a good way but you're probably right, next time I'll find a way to make them jump through a hoop first.

I think I'm just a little more outgoing and need to calibrate to understand not everyone is that way too...

This is a reason why so many guys have a hard time with pickup. They translate just about everything a woman says or does into some kind of test or hoop. She was at work and needed to get the balls out of the pool and didn't want to get wet, so she asked for help. Translating that into setting up hoops is a reach.

The biggest problem with these compliance test theories(compliance tests by women) is that it's not how attraction works between men and women. If a woman is attracted to a man, one of the things that they absolutely would not do is try to set themselves up in a dominate role and instead try to put themselves in the submissive role. It is counterproductive to feminine attractiveness.

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