Wait... So for 6 weeks you passed a girls shit tests ie didn't buy her a drink. But she didn't come out and jump on you for showing your mettle. If she was testing you, shouldn't not buying her a drink be what got you her? Not from when you did buy her one?

Indeed it was the not buying her a drink that got her (she told me about a month in that I was the first guy who "resisted her charms" and thought about it a lot.

Me buying her a birthday drink unasked was just me taking the piss (which never happens to 9's or 10's)


Edit for Jack : Which is statistically unlikely to happen due to the complexity of human interactions but most experienced PUA's I have spoken to have commented on it's rarity and impossibility to quantify to any accuracy to 9's or 10's.

Again, this makes my point that I made earlier. This girl was already attracted to him. Because he was taking this as a shit test, it took six weeks. If he would have acted on day one, not meaning buy a drink for her, this wouldn't have taken this long.

Which goes back to what I initially said. Most guys don't get what a shit test is. Granted, it could be that you are being suckered...which goes well with don't do what you don't want to do. If it's a compliance test, that doesn't match up with don't do what you don't want to do because you very well may want to buy her a drink. You're in essence saying, "I want to buy you a drink but I can't because you asked for one."

I can respect the fact that you have rules for buying women drinks, but that's because you have a belief behind it. It's true to who you are as a man. It's not misrepresenting yourself. A new guy can have that same mettle easily.

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This is getting complicated...To clarify (bear in mind this is my subjective viewpoint)

The girl wasn't attracted at first as she didn't know me. She asked for a drink as a shit test. She didn't get one which made her interested but not quite into investment.

Next time she did it was for validation (she ALWAYS got drinks bought, who did I think I was!)

Interest increased and then it became a game, a ritual. Six weeks later I collapse her frame by getting her one unasked....(unasked being the important part) then bingo.
Had to read that twice but my reply is: Don't buy her a drink if you're doing it to make her "like" you (which you may "want" to do), but bear in mind she could see an early compliance to her request as a shit test boundry collapse (even though it's not).

It is complicated, isn't it? There is a much simpler way, but you say new guys aren't ready for it. Why would she give you a shit test if she's not initially attracted to you? You're basically saying that for six weeks of walking around that bar proactively shit testing men by getting them to buy her drinks. If she was as hot (9) as you said she was, she didn't need to go up to guys asking them to buy her a drink. Those are the girls that guys approach and they get guys offering to buy them drinks.

Which brings me to the other point. Women don't proactively shit test men. Women shit test as a reaction. So when she walked up to you and turned on the charm, all you did was reject because at that point she had no reason to test you. She didn't know you and therefore had no reason to.

BTW...women can find you attractive without knowing you.

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Entirely agreeing with Jack, for the record.

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There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

I see where you're coming from with this and in your context that is indeed true although in this case she wasn't "walking round the bar" asking random guys she was asking them when they had opened her. As much as I might of wished at the time, 9's didn't usually open me.

Here's the full story in detail.

It was July and a warm night, at the time I was sarging in a place called Whitley Bay, a seaside resort on the North East coast of England (nearly all of the English guys on here will know it or know of it). At the time in my 20's it and Newcastle city centre had the reputation of having the biggest girl to guy ratio in the country.

It was a gaming paradise renowned for hen nights from all over the country (meaning babes you could bang and never see again) I was out with two wings and we ended up in the main nightclub in town just before midnight. It was one of those nights when you knew things were going to go well.

Inside we met two PUA's we knew from the Newcastle circuit who had come into Whitley due to one of them inadvertantly banging some hard nut's girlfriend and having to keep a low profile for a few weeks.

After some small talk they mentioned the 9 in my story who was sat with two other hot girls a few orbiters and two random guys chatting to them. "Don't bother with that lot, they just tool guys for drinks" was the advice along with the revelation that they were well known on the Newcastle circuit and "the 9 doesn't even come out with any cash!".

They did look intimidating, one must have been six foot and wearing 4" heels not to mention a huge pair of tits. Everyone else must have been thinking the same thing as there was a huge death row staring at them.

"Bitch city" was the verdict. I replied "every woman is a puzzle to be solved" which I had heard off some other guy and didn't believe at the time (showing off really, there was a bit of one upmanship with the Newcastle crew at the time.) As you have probably guessed I was told to "show how it was done" I give the usual "not my type" argument which fell on deaf ears so suggested we all go up which met with the response "you can get fucked". So with a fair bit of AA I approached.

Luckily for my paper thin courage there was a guy stood next to them who I knew, so I started talking to him planning my next move. I settled on the "Queen of Sheba" opener (famously known for pulling Kezia Noble) and approached the 9.

Worked a treat, we got talking, eventually of course she says "are you going to by me drink?" To whit I give my reply "I only buy drinks for girls I'm dating and did she think she was "special" or something? "Nevermind" was the reply and she fucked off back to her friends leaving me standing there. I expected the guys to be pissing themselves laughing on my way back but got a "well done" instead which was nice.

We sarged some other girls later on and got a kiss close but that was the end of the night.

Next week we're back again and run into a girl I knew from uni, really nice looker with long red curly hair. All of us had tried to game her before and got nowhere so she was put into the pivot box due to her good looks and preselection generation as well as being an ace girl. As we are chatting I notice the 9 looking from across the dancefloor so I smile and wave back which resulted in a big grin from her. I also noticed that two of the guys chatting to her and her friends were local hard nuts with a propensity for violence so decided not to bother going over.

[ I know some of you guys will be thinking "why didn't you use an amog destroyer?" but I had seen a guy get glassed a few months before for running the "Dog shit" destroyer on another guy who didn't take kindly to it and it shook me bad]

Later on I passed her on the way to the gents and got the "are you going to buy me a drink tonight?" [with a touch of kino this time.] In different words I give her the same reply. Not that I wasn't interested [the kino had set some bells ringing] but I didn't want to get involved that night.

The next week was an important one. One weekend of the year you had what was known as "Scandanavian weekend". On this weekend hordes of Norwegians used to get the ferry across from Bergen in Norway to go shopping in Newcastle or the nearby metro centre and then party hard afterwards and they used to hit Whitley Bay like a viking invasion. As you can imagine this drew in every PUA from miles around (some as far North as Scotland and even some London lads) and it was a sarging paradise. I had already FC one the night before and was looking forward to more of the same.

I wasn't disappointed. The club was bouncing with fit blondes, all the PUA's were walking round smiling at each other. A fab night although all the local hotties weren't too happy [what a shame].
I'm stood talking to two uber hot blondes and the 9 walks over bold as brass and starts chatting to me, the other girls didn't seem bothered and chatted along with her. Yet again "are you going to buy me a drink?" Same reply. We chatted another ten mins then the Norwegians dragged me onto the dancefloor. Never saw her again that night.

Next two weeks, more of the same from the 9 but nothing concrete as regards attraction so I had basically given up and gamed anew with other girls .

The sixth night I knew it was on. Two of her friends started chatting to me and one said to the other " this is ...... the guy that ......likes." the other girl says "Why don't you go and give her a birthday kiss?". Indeed. I bought her a drink and went over. FC her that night.


Indeed they can. But this is where I have a different viewpoint.

Sure girls find you attractive physically and if they're 5's or 6's then they will put up with a low value man in other respects if they consider you hot. The thing is though...

9's and 10's have their pick of attractive men. It's their reality so they have a higher level of screening than other girls. As long as you're reasonably ok you get into the inner selection sanctum. Then they start testing you with shit tests, bombarding your boundary [forcefield] with hits to check your credentials. If you pass by showing you're a man of strength then THAT'S when the attraction triggers.

Consider this analogy.

As a man every time you go out you get opened by 10's. How do you pick the wheat from the chaff?
You would do so by testing them. They've already passed the looks test so now they're on the next level screening process. How do you screen them? Depends what you're looking for at the time.

If you're looking for a girl DTF you would turn the conversation sexual as early as possible to see how they reacted. If one gets uncomfortable then you cut short. If the next goes along with it and starts talking about her sexy undies then she passes the test.

You're looking for a girlfriend. You check out her sense of humour and social skills with teasing remarks. She passes. You have a new girlfriend.

You're looking for longterm. You check out if she want's children, is she loyal, is she in it for the long run. If she hints at being a feminazi or has psycho issues she's dumped.

This time it's you doing the testing. All girls have different weightings to what's important attraction wise and how attractive they are is the biggest influencer of what those weightings are.

Regards M

I just feel like he doesn't do enough approaching or doesn't get the results he wants and every thread is some kind of theoretical justification in disguise.

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After all of that, the same thing applies. You are saying you opened with a successful opener. Then you went on to have a conversation. Then you say she gave you a shit test by asking for you to buy her a drink. You're so successful at hacking this shit test she said "nevermind" and went back over to her friends leaving you standing there.

You know you make absolutely no sense right? Tell me you can see it. I'm hoping that you are successful with women and don't understand the reason behind your success because the alternative is that you're just making stuff up to remain consistent with your point. Either way, it's clear that you don't understand what a shit test is and what triggers them.

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Hmmm. would you have just went and gotten her a drink like the last dozen guys and hoped she would think "what a nice guy"?

Collapsing your frame just to please a woman is never a good idea, it projects neediness and lack of dominance.

The reason she went back to her friends was because she expected me to follow her. I nearly did.
If you want to know what's up the road ahead then ask someone on their way back. Altough I'm not going to criticise your view point on game as I used have the exact same when I was in my 20's.

You never stop learning but you do get the law of diminishing returns in how you improve and after say about ten years you're more consolidating what you know as your improvement is almost incremental.

The good news is you go through paradigm shifts in your understanding of women and attraction dynamics every 4 or 5 years after and reconsolidate all your knowledge.

That's when you become unconsciously competent and calibrate on the fly seamlessly.

If you ask most experienced pua's with decades of experience and thousands of approaches under their belt they will tell you about the "zone". It's when your'e sat in your own head as an observer listing to your self game a girl, the whole thing is automatic. It's weird but that's what happens as if your body is a zombie and "someone" else is doing the gaming.

If you want to learn ONE thing from this thread that is very important this is it.

KEEP YOUR BOUNDARIES WITH WOMEN AND DON'T COLLAPSE THEM FOR WOMEN

Lol. Nice little reframe. Real PUA aren't you I appreciate it, but I didn't want a lesson. I think I'm doing just fine, thanks.

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I grew out of the dumb shit I used to say on here. Most of my posts don't represent who I am today at all.

If I were to buy her a drink, it would have been because I wanted to and not because I wanted her to think I'm a nice guy. In that moment she is there with me and nothing else or any of the other guys that talked to her before me matters. If I put a drink in her hand that wouldn't make her think I was like everyone else. One action doesn't define an entire interaction.

Her response was "nevermind" and you're saying that she expected you to follow her? Keep in mind you just said that you thought you were going to be laughed at because she walked away. You couldn't have believed that it was a successful interaction if you thought you were going to be laughed at. If you thought you were going to be laughed at and it was nice because it didn't happen, then you must have thought you crashed and burned with this girl.

If you aren't making this up then that statement means you are oblivious to why you were able to get this girl six weeks later.

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If that's your internal reality at the time that's fine. Maybe you had the frame to overcome her test.

I think it's you who said they had a Psychology degree so if it is you will be familiar with "Theory of mind?"

The reason being you would have been dealing with her subjective reality of the interaction (she can't read your mind to see the iron frame, so has to judge you by your actions) and would have seen your buying her a drink as a boundry collapse (which it wasn't) and lost attraction due to you being assigned likely orbiter status.

Yout intentions were good, your frame was solid but your action was misconstrued by her. She's the one in the wrong but that doesn't help in any way to your goal. You had two doors to choose but picked the wrong one thinking you could get back on track afterwards (which you may have been able to do if your game is wired solid) but even then it's just making things more complex.

At the time my game was at an intermediate level and the whole "not buying a drink" thing seemed very counterintuitive, I went along with it from a strategic perspective as my investment wasn't very high so I had nothing to lose really.

Like I said, I nearly did follow her back to her friends; it was 50/50 but I "knew" at the back of my head that's what she wanted me to do (sort of a shit test parthian shot) so cut loose.
I'm surprised you said that. "theory of mind" remember. My wings and the Newcastle crew couldn't hear the interaction, just observe it. To a casual observer from a distance it did look like a normal crash and burn. For all they knew the reason she went back to her friends was because I wussed out, She didn't like me, my game was rubbish, I acted all needy or a thousand different reasons. I thought it was nice they didn't laugh on my way back because I expected them to do so. I "theory of minded" what they saw and ascribed a conclusion I thought they would make based on what they had seen.

The Newcastle crew didn't laugh because they admired my balls for approaching what they had already told me was a hard target, and my wings didn't laugh because they realised she had "buy me a drinked" me and I had held frame (and I had undervalued their perception of the dynamic).

This thread's meandering a bit now but I always value other guy's feedback if they know what they're talking about.

LMAO...this is all bullshit. You just made up a girl in your head and imagined an interaction between her and I. Then you made up what she was thinking during this imagined interaction. I will concede that I failed the imaginary shit test, because I know it happened in your fantasy where you've made all of the characters, as long as you tell me how it worked out between me and the imaginary girl six weeks from now.

Here in the real world, you have no idea of what you're talking about and now have proven that you are willing to make up a scenario to prove your point as correct. At first I thought you were giving advice based on a lack of understanding of what a shit test is. Even as unrealistic as your story of the six week girl is, I still kept giving you the benefit of misunderstanding how you got that girl. But now you've put me in a fictional story to prove your point. This is keyboard jockeying at a whole new level.

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You put yourself in my place, so I put you in mine. It's not a hard concept?

I was there and you were not, so who's the better judge of what may or may not have happened.

Imagine if I had the temerity to put myself into one of your field reports saying what was actually going on and implying my version was more accurate than yours and my keyboard based analysis was way more was superior to yours? It would be the worst sort of hubris.

I dated her for 9 months, in that time I found out exactly why she became attracted.

Did you know that not being to put yourself in someone elses shoes (poor "theory of mind") has a name...or rather a diagnosis.