First off, I've been reading about PUA techniques for over a year now. I've gone on something like 40 dates in the past two years, most of them since I started reading PUA stuff (ie Bang by RooshV, ROK, Heartiste, Blackdragon). Almost all these dates were from women I met online (Tinder, POF, OKCupid). I'm in my mid-twenties, and the girls I've dated are all in the 18-30 range, mostly around 20-26. Usually we go to a bar for the first date. I've had sex zero times from these dates. I'm not a virgin but I haven't had sex in a while.

The good: I've eliminated a lot of basic beta behaviors like complimenting the woman too much, texting back too soon, terrible body language (although I still may smile too much). I get a lot of first dates, which means that I must be doing something right in terms of my dating profiles, my appearance, and my initial messages. I kiss a fair number of girls, but that by itself means zilch.

The bad: I get very few second dates, and I haven't had sex with any of these women, although I almost did with two (in both cases, some stupid intervening crap happened that stopped it when it was about to happen).

In both those cases where I almost had sex with the girl, there were sexual plans or suggestions we made in the initial exchanges of messages and texts before meeting up. The vast majority of girls I date don't exchange any overtly sexual messages with me before the date, so perhaps that's part of the problem. Most of the girls I've dated seem to be more the LTR type than the hookup type, which would be fine if they were interested in a LTR with me but clearly they're not.

When girls turn me down for the second date, I usually get the generic "lack of chemistry"/"just not feeling it" explanation, often preceded by "you seem like a nice guy but..." or "I had a good time but..."

Anyway here are my guesses on what could be happening, and why I'm not succeeding:

1. Maybe kissing the girls or touching them too much (or for too long) on the first date is a bad idea, and I need to dial this down. After reading blackdragon, I've decided to stop going for the kiss on the first date (I kissed girls on the first date as a rule for a while). We will see if this works.

2. I am only 5'7, and I generally wear height-increasing shoes on dates, they make me look two inches taller. On websites where it lists height, I put 5'9 (Tinder has no height requirement so I don't list it there). Is this a good or a bad idea? Can girls tell that I'm faking it? For instance, because they can hear the "high heel" type sounds the shoes make, or I walk a bit weirdly, or because when I sit down I look a bit shorter. Also, when the eventual time comes where I have them in a home situation and we're together (making out/watching a movie/having sex, whatever), when the tall shoes come off, are they gonna view me as dishonest?

Would it be better to just eschew the tall shoes altogether, put my real height up, in order to avoid girls potentially seeing me as dishonest and insecure? I'll probably get less dates this way, but may it also mean a higher chance of attaining successful dates?

3. I take ADHD medication (Concerta). I have taken similar medications for most of my life, but I've been off them for the past five years, up until I started taking it recently, a few weeks ago. I don't know if it's helping or hindering me. I feel it stops me from blurting out stupid comments, and it makes me feel more attentive and self aware in general, but it may also make me seem less funny and spontaneous and more robotic. Then again, perhaps being too obsessed with seeming funny is part of my problem when off the pill to begin with (and to a lesser extent, when on it), and maybe this change in behavior is for the better? Also it seems to make my penis and testicles smaller, definitely when flaccid, and it's hard to tell but it may also do the same when erect.

4. I live in Toronto...terrible city, I know. I've read all the PUA articles about it. I try to date girls elsewhere in surrounding cities though, because I am in a different smaller city about an hour's drive away, on weekends. Does anyone here know if the terrible aspects of dating girls in Toronto also apply to the other surrounding cities like Hamilton, Kitchener-Waterloo, Barrie, Guelph, Cambridge, etc.?

5. Given that I live in the Toronto area, how seriously do I need to avoid saying anything politically incorrect? I try to avoid politics as much as possible on dates, but sometimes I feel like I blurt out the wrong thing. The ADHD pill lessens this problem somewhat, but not wholly.

Is it really important to make a girl laugh a lot on a date? If being funny runs the risk of inadvertently offending her, is it better just to avoid any joke that even stands a remote chance of pushing those bad buttons?

How much are girls typically offended by anything even remotely offensive? (ie anything possibly interpreted as sexist, racist, ableist etc regardless of whether it's a joke or serious). I read on blackdragon, if you say ONE thing that hits the "offended" button, that's it, you're done, game over. Since I get a lot of first dates but few second dates, could this be my core problem?

6. So far for me, the copypasta pickup line first message approach on online dating sites hasn't seemed to work. I have a bunch of funny pickup line first messages, but every time I've tried mass messaging girls with it on POF, I haven't got any real results. Maybe on Tinder that sort of thing would work better? I usually try the more conversational approach of opening up with a "how's it going?" and a reference to something in their profile, often a joke about something in their profile if I can think of one.

7. I try to talk a bit about sex during every first date, but often we don't talk about it much during or before the date. And if we do, it's often in a rather chaste context without going into too many details. I find at bars, when other people nearby could be listening, it seems awkward to discuss sex in a more detailed way. Is that a problem? Should I be more aggressive in talking about sex more?

Too long to read,

But 40 dates from online game and 0 lays..

Usually means, if you're not being a weirdo with awkward chat, then you have escalation issues. How would you rate your escalation skill level?

I have mentioned this many,, many, many times on this forum. To be the Daddy at online game. Master offline game and then the online game becomes a doddle.

You have a typical case of 'Relying on online game' Syndrome and you haven't been through the harsh brutal trenches of pick up. You haven't been rejected and told to fuck off numerous times. You're playing it safe. You're playing not to lose and not playing to win.

If I was you I would spend the next few weekends of going to the club and practising physical escalation till you're getting regular make outs. Then your online dates should go so much easier.

Focus on what is stopping you from getting laid and then own that sticking point. PRIORITY.

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This is the heart of the issue.

Communication is all about vibes. And i'm always certain you are giving off a repelling vibe. Its written all over this post. You haven't actually gotten good at this. You haven't put in the work and you haven't taken enough social risk to develop your character into one that is actually attractive. There is no way to short cut this man. If you want to stop wasting your time you're going to have to step out of your comfort zone, get to approaching to develop a stronger emotional body.

Online is cool once you have your game down, but until then its really of no use. Its just plain easy as you can see. You got 40 dates without any real social skills, thats just a testament to how online dating takes little to no actually skill. The average guy can get laid with online without skipping a beat.

Get out the house and start approaching. Its time for you to work on character development. You have the study, but you don't have the practice. As Jay-z said " They've read a lot of books, i've lived a lot of life". Riding a bike teaches you more about bike riding the reading about bikes.

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Hmm it seems like your doing a good job of getting on the dates but not the escalation part. The problem with books is everyone has different techniques that work for them. Were there times you thought the date may end in a lay?

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Feels like people are making it seem that online game is somehow inferior to offline. Which is true to a degree, but in my opinion irrelevant. I don't think you need one in order to be capable of the other.

Anyway, OP:
Stop trying to label a girl before you know her. There's plenty of normal, "LTR" type girl that only want to have their brains fucked out by a proper dude. You'll miss out because of your current mentality.
I never heard of blackdragon but I dislike him already. There are very few cases where not kissing her on a first date will pay off, and even in those cases the payoff barely outweigh the risks.
Kiss girls on a first date. Just don't do it at the end like every other clichee ever. Do it during, on highpoints, where you're really enjoying yourselves.
This is ridiculous. Of-course they'll see you as insecure, because you are insecure. Look at you. You're worried about the heel noise you make and how you appear when you sit down. Change the things you can, own the things you can't. You can't change your height.
I never was a big fan of medication. That said, I only take it when it's absolutely necessary. Also I'm no MD so the seriousness of your ADHD is not something I can speak on. I highly doubt it makes your dick smaller though.
You're telling me that all the girls in Toronto are somehow un-dateble? Stop making excuses
You don't need to avoid saying anything. It's generally a stupid idea to talk about religion/politics on dates. But political correctness is retarded in my opinion. I mean your underlying problem is obvious. You're a pleaser. You put the entire female gender on a pedestal and feel you need to prove yourself to every girl you date. That's where your obsession with "not saying the wrong thing" comes from. If you dated a KKK member, she'd love you "political incorrectness".
Personally I don't care about your values and I'm not here to talk about them, but the point I'm trying to make is that you need to search for compatibility, instead of trying to mold your own persona after every single woman you meet. Also, again, fuck blackdragon.

No it's not important to make a girl laugh. You're not a clown. This question springs from the same pedestalization thing you have going on. What's important is to have a good time. To have an enjoyable date. For both of you. Whether it's through humor of philosophical threads of conversation is irrelevant. Personally I value humor, witty conversation and teasing. So I get along great with girls that share those values. I'm also highly incompatible with easily offendable people. Which is perfect, because I wouldn't enjoy nor want to spend time with that kind of person.

Finally, how much they're offended by certain topics varies greatly. If you're playful you can get away with a lot of things, but again, not everyone is mentally capable of recognizing that. What's most important is your intentions. If you make a humorous racist comment because you find it funny, the intention is positive. If you make a racist comment because you are a racist, the intention is negative. And so will be her reaction.

I feel the need to stress this out for you. Stop being obsessed with pleasing people. It makes you look as if you have no identity of your own. You're like water, taking the shape of any given recipient it's being poured into. That's not sexy.

"Hi <name>, my netflix is broken. Can I come over and watch yours?" I've been using that for as long as I can remember and for the majority of the time it gets positive responses. It's a funny line with cheeky implications.
I'd never go for "how's it going" though. I absolutely hate being asked that type of question myself, so I won't do it to others.

You can talk however you want, just don't be thirsty. If you act like a horny pre-pubescent teen when talking about sex, yeah, not cool.

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I'm 23 y/o woman who's been on a few tinder dates so I'll try to answer from my perspective:

1. Kissing/touching too much.
I doubt this has a negative effect if you're sure the girls are into it and we aren't talking about them maybe kissing you at the end of the date out of a feeling of obligation. If I was vibing with a guy on a date to the point where I felt comfortable touching and kissing a lot, that level of physical contact would set the tone for the date. I would probably be more receptive to going home with him if I've already gotten a bit hot and heavy on the date itself.

2. Wearing the heeled shoes.
Firstly, I would be honest about your height and instead let your dates be pleasantly surprised than potentially disappointed. I doubt the girls are noticing this. The clacking noise of shoes on floors doesn't always mean heels and could be quite sexy and give you a sense of presence. Think flamenco dancer. Be confident in your walk, it'll pay off.


3. Take your medication.
If you're feeling the need to try and be funny, people may be able to tell. You should definitely try to relax because a sniff of desperation can be very unattractive. You're getting so many dates so you must be attractive, don't stress too much about being funny - it isn't the only positive personality trait. With the volume of dates you get, a good way to relax may be trying to treat a date as practice - if you don't feel the stakes are high, you don't feel that desperation to impress. The best humor comes from someone who is relaxed anyway. The appeal of those 'funny guys' is that laid back attitude.

4. Can't comment on the city sorry

5. Political incorrectness.
This is something I can't really decide on without knowing your idea of political incorrectness. My advice would be just to avoid talking politics at all. This is extremely personal to each girl and a small number may be completely turned off by anything offensive.

However, most people act like real adults - they've dealt with differing opinions in their lives and if your date and you differ on an opinion, the best thing to do is just laugh it off and move on.

Personally, the deal-breaker for me would be someone who seems ignorant and proud of it/unwilling to learn, or someone without compassion for others. I don't find sexist/racist/abelist jokes funny most of the time but I would usually react by rolling my eyes and joking about how that was the best they could come up with. However, I'm not from your city.

If you think this is your problem, there are a million other things to talk about that you don't need to brush on these topics at all! Especially on a first date.

6. Opening line.
Honestly, I usually ignore copy/pasta pickup lines unless the guy is super hot. I'm much more likely to respond to a 'hey what's up?' and especially more likely to respond to something specific to my profile.

7. Talking about sex.
If this is your goal, I say go for it. I think you should try to set up expectations for sex in the conversation before the date because this is an excellent way to find girls on the same page as you. It will limit the overall number of dates you're getting but the dates you do get should be more successful.
You can keep this up on the date itself but keep it towards the end and be mindful of the date's reaction. Is she mirroring your interest? Is she brushing it off?

Hope this helps? It's just one woman's opinion though! Obviously this isn't the general opinion of all - just what I would find more attractive.

Be wary taking advice from women, they're not usually able to verbalize how they actually feel and will instead giving you useless platitudes along the lines of "just be yourself." Anyway, I didn't read her whole post but I can already tell you point 7 is a no-go. Do not overtly set up expectation for sex beforehand. Overt is the poor man's covert and this is something that has a greater impact on in-person. If you start overtly talking about sex expectations, she will filter you as a needy chode. Better to use covert communication during the date. I.e. "I think it's really cool how we met. I'm never going to meet your friends, family or co-workers, so basically everything we tell each other is a secret" (credit: Nick Krauser) or "I'm usually willing to try anything at least once, as long as it won't put me in prison or kill me." It's all about plausible deniability for the woman.

EDIT: Also, her advice comes from having gone on Tinder dates. Tinder is for chodes. As a man, Tinder is only good for banging girls 2 points below you, and most hot girls only use it for validation anyway. You'll get better quality from cold approaching.

Speak for yourself bro. More girls for me.

See, this is a mindset indifference, "2 points below them " - I don't think of myself as a point. I think of my self as an attractive male that has his shit together and I attract that in the female. The law of attraction.

Anyway, online should only be to supplement your current game. Which explains the reason why we get so many threads with guys that have escalation troubles and are 100% doing online dating only.

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I think my escalation has been improving lately, at least in situations where there is some chemistry to begin with. When kinoing a girl in the first 1-1.5 hours of the first date, is it usually better to caress whatever body part you're touching (ie neck, leg, ass, back) or to keep your hand still? How long do you usually leave your hand there?
How exactly are you supposed to have a conversation at a club anyway? I find the music is so loud that half the time, I can't understand the person I'm speaking with.

Also, is going to a club alone a bad idea? Almost all my friends are either spergs/socially awkward, moved far away, live far away, or are married or in a serious relationship. Being able to find a wingman may be almost as hard as the end goal of getting with the girls themselves.
Two dates almost ended in a lay (both times we exchanged sexual messages before the date, both are about 6's...chubby but still definitely doable). In both those cases it was my stupidity that prevented the lay from happening (first time, I made the mistake of not choosing a secluded enough parking spot, the second time I forgot to shave my pubic hair beforehand).

I think there was one recent girl I could've had sex with (a 7, thin and actually a tiny bit taller than me), the vibes were good for a while, we kissed a number of times, I was touching her ass for a while. She talked about sex openly a lot. Her body language indicated she was at least somewhat interested because she had her leg touching mine for a while, and she'd positioned herself in a way where I could easily touch her ass while we were sitting down. The reason I blew it with one was unfortunately because I ran my mouth in response to some absurd far left comment she made. If I'd just bit my tongue, I may have been able to get laid with her. Also by that point we'd drank enough that my dick wouldn't have been able to get hard anyway. Lesson I learned there: avoid politics and don't drink too much.

You don't, you just physically escalate, hence my reason why you should practise there.

Lot's of threads on club game and I take home girls more often than not without having a 'conversation'.

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So you're saying I should wear the tall shoes or I shouldn't? I should put my actual height on my dating profile or I shouldn't?
It does. Look it up online. A lot of people are talking about this.
Not necessarily undateable, but if I'm gonna have worse odds in Toronto than anywhere else (especially in nightlife game), a point repeatedly made on various PUA sites and boards, it may be advisable to hone my skills somewhere else. From what I've heard about Toronto nightlife game, it's a nightmare.
"Simply be yourself" is not good advice when it comes to dating and politics where I live. Obviously bringing up politics or anything political is probably a bad idea, but often the girl will be the one to interject a political statement somewhere and I'll fail to restrain myself in replying to it. The smart thing would be to change the subject as soon as possible rather than addressing it in any way.

Where I live, the political correctness is so omnipresent that it's basically suicide to address anything political in any way on a first date, if you don't agree with the officially sanctioned PC opinion. Anytime I say anything that veers from the acceptable PC opinion, I can feel tension suddenly enter the room, and not the good (sexual) kind of tension, the bad kind.

Maybe in a relationship it's different, but on a first date it's basically suicide unless she's one of the 5% or less of girls in my area who don't think this way.

Anyway, it's probably true that I am thinking too much from a "trying to please her" mindset, and I should be thinking from more of a "relax and have fun" mindset. But politics is the big exception to that. From my experience that's an area where it's best to STFU and change the subject, every time.
Can I steal that line and use it myself? Idk if you're supposed to ask permission here to do that...

LMAO
There is a difference between 'heard' and actually trying for yourself, your comment pretty mentions you have no idea if it's hard or not. Maybe the person that informed you of this was a defeatist?

A busy capital city of a western country is hard? Really???????? Not saying seduction is easy, but I am pretty sure in the whole city of Toronto, there is people fucking within the buildings and there is men meeting women

Excuses, I am sure Charles Finley can chime in of Toronto. I doubt he is a virgin.

Also, I did a tinder test there and I was getting matches like crazy, defo one for the bucket list to travel to.

You need to escape this online dating bubble you have created for yourself and get yourself in the trenches. THEN come back to online game after you have put some hairs on your chest,

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This response here says it all. Reading between the lines, it seems like you'd be disgusted by anything un-PC. I have a feeling my paranoia on this particular issue is completely justified. My problem isn't that I'm too paranoid (on this issue), it's that I have occasional lapses where I don't take my parnaoia seriously enough.

So Toronto isn't the problem

It's your paranoia?

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As a general rule, I probably am too paranoid and self conscious and I'm sure occasionally I let it show in my behavior, as much as I try to mask it when on dates in particular.

But on the issue of political correctness, I'm completely correct in being paranoid. It's getting like the USSR in this bitch. Virtually every girl I meet has some degree of SJW ideology now ingrained in her head.

Whenever I blurt out something un-PC, when I let it slip, I can just see the girl's body language change almost immediately. She starts closing up and generally stays that way for the remainder of the date.