hi all I'm 49 just getting back on the scene after an ltr break up - the usual story. I am targeting women in their late thirties so I'm interested in finding more subtle Kino techniques.

a guy on another forum shared these two but didn't really explain how to use them.

"Some examples I use are grabbing her arm to 'quickly show her something', or knock my thigh against hers when I make a joke."

Also what is your opinion on early kino? I normally greet them with a hug I haven't got the cold shoulder so far. But I guess it might come across as being too eager for physical contact.

A hand hold is all you ever need regarding kino/physical escalation.

If she doesn't hold your hand back, you won't be able to kiss or get her to come home with you.

Touching her thigh 'by accident' is as about as effective as a chocolate fire guard.

Are you sure this is the main sticking point hurdle to you meeting women?

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Thanks. No it was in the context of the conversation on aloofness. Had a couple of dates where I think I was coming across as too interested. and then my question was well how do you use Kino wihen at the same time you're trying to look nonchalant and chilled.

The example you quoted is just the way.

Touch when you're making a point in the conversation.

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I know how to kino escalate. The point is how best to combine it with being a challenge. I ve always got by on comfort and charm. But that doesn't seem to cut it anymore.

My problem is I escalate in a linear fashion. I think it puts me in the pack with all the other thirsty guys. It's too predictable

Never really understand how to do the 2 steps forward, 1 step back tactic in detail.

The 2 step forward 1 step back is mean for when she's showing resistance.
For example, you're in bed about to take of her top for the first time, but she stops you. So she's not there yet. As such, you take a step back to kissing and turning her on, then two steps forward by taking off her top and her pants.

Calibrate your escalation to her responsiveness. If she's uncomfortable holding your hand, going in for the kiss will obviously not be a smart choice, and would also be somewhat characteristic to the thirsty guys.

As far as being a challenge goes, that's moreso conveyed by your overall entity rather than what or how you chose to touch. Give her a slight shove if she's being cheeky, or a slight slap on the hand.

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My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

I'm not sure he knows.

Escalating with a challenge is like approaching and saying you're not interested in her. Someone link me to "escalating with challenge" theory..

I think the OP is making something that's supposed to be really simple into something suddenly complex.

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Its a state of mind man. We interact based off of the vibes we get from one another, and the person with the more dominate vibe will be the person who's vibe gets adopted. The dominance of your vibe will greatly depend on yourself confidence, and that what is will be projected. The guy thats nervous to give a girl a hugs, hug will come off weak, desperate, and awkward. The confident guy thats like "come here girl" will have a hug that feels a lot more warm and embracing. It is his attitude and confidence that will dominant the frame.
This is why the concept of assuming attraction works so well. When your confidence allows you to assume someone is attracted to you enough you produce brain waves and even pheromones that help illicit this desire in the person you are interacting with.

Now, can a ma of low value and low self confidence do this effectively? Absolutely not. Because a hot woman will naturally have a more dominant frame. And his pedestaling her will cause her to treat him like less, because that is what he is projecting.

You can get away with almost anything with enough self confidence. So if you want to work on any area of your life let it be that. No pain no gain though man. Building confidence can be uncomfortable, scary to some, and painful emotionally. But it has to be done. You have to get out of your comfort zone and approach woman, take risk, and potentially look like a fool until you have small success that build your confidence. If you're online dating and haven't built of sufficient levels of self confidence yet, you have to put it away until you do. Because you won't have to confidence or fortitude necessary to have anything but 2-3 month flings with them women you meet offline.

Develop your confidence and you won't need "accidentally touches", you'll be confident enough to just took a woman when you want to. I'll go out and literary lightly grab a woman by the wrist and pull on it to gesture for her to turn in my direction so we can talk. When I'm confident, they turn around with a smile, the times when I'm not, I'll get mixed reactions. So your confidence will determine how you touches are received by women. Words like desperate and needy are words for the unconfident. A womans frame isn't strong enough to label me. I label me and she adapts to it.

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Thanks for the advice guys. I ve had 4 dates. 1 cold approach, I from a meet up and 2 old chicks. I setup the initial frame well but made a few mistakes on the dates. with the most attractive of the girls I did initial hug, fist bumps, high 5s, palm read etc. We made out for most of the date. but then it fizzled on the second date.

since nobody has come up with anything specific I have to work on apart from theold chestnut of confidence I guess I ll go for more dates and fix the tactical mistakes I know I made. I do find it difficult to find women of the right age to cold approach so sadly practice will probably b flakey OLD chicks. My city doesn't seem to have many classy lounge bars.

"Kino" is not a process. It's a part of the intimacy. Stop treating people (and yourself) like robots.

I made a post about kino before but can't be assed to look for it now. I'll say upfront that I don't do the "daygame" shit (not intentionally) although I have gamed multiple girls in the day, but my preference is nightgame/club game.


Fist bumps and hi-5's should be saved for your bros. Palm reading should be done if you're working in a fair and they're paying you to have your fortune told. I'm not saying that these cannot be used, or don't have their usefulness, but for the most part they are gimmicky and not necessary.

Calibration for kino is essential. You want to be looking into her eyes, smiling, and watching her expression. She will ALWAYS let you know what you're thinking when you're looking into each other's eyes.

Touch her shoulder. Hold. Put your arm around her waist or your hand on the small of her back. Hold. Intentionally establish body contact, with your body leaning against hers. Hold.

You're talking to her. These actions MUST be done naturally and smoothly. Hesitation on your part will destroy the process.

If she remains in place, good. If she edges closer to you,or encourages the kino in any way, even better.

If she moves away, expresses non-verbal displeasure, then ease back a bit, then re-engage later.

If she verbally says that she's not comfortable, immediately disengage, but do NOT make a big deal.

If she remains in place or encourages the contact, escalate slightly. Hold your touches for longer. Get closer to her - this will require some planning on the physical location of your bodies. Good responses? Keep escalating.

Personally, I like some privacy before I raise the intimacy too much - I probably wouldn't go for a LONG kiss in the middle of a crowded daytime restaurant. Make sure that your location is good for this kind of escalation if that's what you're looking for.

If you go for the kiss and she turns her cheek or something similar, watch her body language. If she physically moves her body away from you, she *may* not be interested. However, if she turns down the kiss BUT stays close, continues to touch, then she's still interested.

Broaden your scope. The excuse that "you don't find X girls at X venue" is absolute bullshit. For example, some of the sweetest, most innocent girls go to the club. Expand your search beyond "classy lounge bars".

Kino escalation is only a form of communication, just like verbal communication.

The same way you get a feel for what to say, the same way kino should flow smoothly.

If you cannot hold a conversation, you cannot kino.

Kino and conversation fluidity should go together smoothly.

As your conversation escalates and you connect more so should your kino, the two go hand in hand.

Kino/verbal communication is the same, is all a form of conveying a message.

I can give you different moves you can combine with your verbals if you are interested.

But that's the basic foundation.

Let that sink in first.

I have my own set of kino escalation, you can also do some research and see what others do and create you're own style.

I will leave you with a couple basic moves you can use right away:

Upon the introduction: Give a warm handshake and solid eye contact/smile.

As you talk give light shoulder taps to emphasize your verbals.

But like I said, you need to heat up your seductive verbal communication if you want to add Hugs/Makeouts/ect.

I hope you get the gist of it.

Is incredibly easy.

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But I've heard you mention that you pull girls on the dance floor without having conversations?

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So to summarise the advice actually to be bolder and not to try and fly under the radar. Interesting. Will try and report back.