So this is the bartender from this thread: general-questions/bartender-vt193910.html

Number closed, sent her a text as I was leaving:

"Hey this is Onoma, have a great night and save some Bad Decisions for me!" (Bad Decisions is a beer they serve which I'd joked about last time.)

Her reply:

"Thank you! Listen you going out of your way to come in and ask me out was probably one of the most flattering things someone has done to me. But, I just got out of a serious relationship and really only have time for myself and don't want to send you mixed signals and I'm not ready to start dating again.

I hope this doesn't mean you won't come in and have some drinks with me I'm never opposed to getting to know people, I would just rather it be in a mutually comfortable location and time if you could understand that."


So is she friend zoning me? Or is this an opening for me to say I want to keep it casual? (I'm still getting over my last relationship too anyway.) Or is this a shit test?

Thinking of replying: "Hey I'm all about the flattery. Understand about the relationship, I'm not quite over my last one either. I'd like to hang out and see where things go, we can at least have a little fun together."

Thoughts?


EDIT: Decided either it's a friendzone or she's shit testing to see if I wanna keep it casual. Didn't want to wait too long, already almost been an hour, and looks like no one's online here so replied:

"I'm all about the flattery
Honestly I'm still kinda dealing with my last breakup too, so not necessarily looking for anything serious. We could just keep it light and have some fun together... if you're not comfortable with that I'm sure we'll see each other around. When's the next night you're free?"

Feel free to tell me how bad that was and why.

This isn't a shit test, friend zone, or a way for you to offer to keep things casual. This is her saying to you that she's not interested in going out with you. She works at a bar. She is hired to make you want to buy drinks. She is trained on how to make you tip more. Her job is to give you the fantasy of attainability.

The worst thing you can do is try to use direct words to get her to change her mind. She said it and that's it. The best thing you can do is be unaffected. When you go to that bar, you remain the same as you always have been. Continue to flirt with her, but also flirt with other women without worrying about what she thinks.

Your next text to her: I understand

Doesn't mean that you accept what she say nor does it mean that you've given up. You simply understand.

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The big problem there is this isn't a place I'd be likely to go very often at all and I explicitly told her I'd been going there to get to know her and it doesn't fit into my schedule well. Continuing to go would just look needy or even creepy. (Plus I honestly don't have time for it.)

Then don't go unless you want to. No big deal with that.

People who look needy or creepy are the ones that are needy or creepy. If you want to go to a bar to have a good time then go to the bar and have a good time. You can't let her saying that she doesn't want to go out with you dictate where you want to hang out. You can be normal around women that don't want to go out with you.

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But that's the point, I don't want to keep going there. And I told her that.

You told her that after you asked when she is free for you to go in and have drinks with her sometime? I can see why you would fear coming across as needy because it is going against what you want.

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No, when I first asked her out I said I was mostly going there to see her and I'm too busy to keep doing that.

Not too much difference. You don't want to keep going in and then ask her the next time she's free so you can come in.

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i dont like the line about "I'm still getting over my last one too"…..yea it might build rapport because she's going through similar, but girls are very cautious about guys and their ex's. if theres any hint a guy is still sprung off his ex girls will sense that and be very turned off….you need to make it clear to all women that you dont give a flying shit about any ex girls and that you are totally independent of emotional baggage.

Dude, she was just rejecting you in a nice way.
She's not shit testing and she's not giving you an opening. And you also fucked up with the text you replied with.

Other than that, I agree with what Jack said.

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Yeah, I was going for rapport but afterwards I was doubting that it was a good idea to include that.

I still don't think JackZero's "I understand." would have been the right way to go. Here was my thought process last night (stated more clearly.)

1) Assume Attraction: That is, that she really was interested and really was just out of a relationship. I can understand that as I was in the same place early last year and let a girl I liked slip through my fingers.

2) Rejection is a Timesaver: (That should sound familiar, right R.C.? ) I'd rather have a clear rejection than leave it open and keep going there to try. Or at all, not that it's a bad bar (although not great for gaming) it's just that I'm way too busy to keep going to sit in a bar for a couple hours a week.

3) I didn't want to simply accept her definition of our relationship. As near as I can tell half the reason for the friendzone existing is that guys accept the friendzone. This kinda follows from 1 & 2, either she was interested or I should move on. So I wanted something that made it clear further interactions were going to be romantic/sexual rather than just accepting her offer of platonic meetups.

"I understand" kind of accomplishes 1 but not 2 or 3. And maybe you guys will say I'm way off base on #3 but I think #2 is solid.

So it sounds like my actual text wasn't very good, but what would have accomplished 1, 2 and 3 in a better fashion?

Jack's "I understand" derived from the thought that this bar was or could have been a usual hang out spot for you, so that you, as he said, could have continued going there and flirting with her and what other women.


1) Yes, you should assume attraction, but assumption is something done in absence of proof. You assume something, until you can confirm it.
Her rejection was confirmation that your assumption was incorrect in this case.

2) It is. And it was a clear rejection. She didn't say she's not ready for another relationship, she said she's not ready to start dating again.
Women won't blatantly tell you "I'm not interested" most of the times, because their autopilot is to soften the blow. Especially when it comes to "hired guns". Of-course she still wants you to visit the bar. That's her job.

3) She didn't friendzone you. You made your intentions clear, and she made hers.

Your text wasn't good because you started explaining yourself in an apologetic, mimicking fashion.

Personally I'd just move on. You got your answer and visiting this place just takes a toll on your time.

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How to keep a girl.

OP, one of the best explanations of how women think is something R.C. said in a different post. When women tell you how they feel, they are telling you how they feel in that moment (obviously paraphrasing). That doesn't only mean the good feelings...it's also the bad. Let them have that moment without trying to change that feeling when they are expressing something that you don't agree with.

The purpose of my answer was to actually convey nothing at all and letting her interpret your response the way that she wanted to. Your response was weak because you basically told her that her feelings on going out with you doesn't matter and that would make her more determined to stick with those feelings. Actions are what get women to change their minds. If you simply told her that you get what she said, she would drop any defensiveness and you would have a chance to start over. You could have a hang out spot. The bartender would actually help your game with other women. I've said it before and I'm saying it again...if you show other women attention in front of a woman that you expressed your attraction for that attention she's missing out on will turn into tension.

Guys that continue to chase a girl that rejects them are foolish. The guy that puts himself in a position for the girl to want him to chase again is better off. I'm starting to see why guys get oneitus so much. It's because they can't see the big picture.

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You have a oneitus with a girl that probably compares you to that little white substance that you get at the side of your mouth when you're a little dehydrated.

MOVE.ON.

You're in danger of Nathoonder chode mode

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