Just had one seem to go fairly well. She was rubbing up on me, touching me and things felt great. Thing is she is South American, and I know those girls can be very touchy but that doesn't mean they want to hook up with you.

I don't do the boring interview dates, although I know I have tons of room for improvement.

She knows I am not there to be her friend.

At the end of the night, she gave me that ninja hug, where I have no time to look into her eyes and kiss her. Wanted to go for it during the date but I fucked up I guess. She didn't make prolongued eye contact. Not sure if that's because she's shy and I was dominating her, which I was. I just hate doing that crap in public places. I just have so much higher value than virtually every girl I meet, I am not sure if their weak eye contact is them awknowledging I have higher value or them not being interested. (Assuming they are shy girls which this girl is)

Anyway, as title said, have people found that without a kiss on first date, pretty much means friend-zoned? I mean, she didn't even seen interested at times and then some times she was all over me. Not sure what to make of it.

She's also easily a 9...so yah...and my dates with 9's typically never end in me being happy, only ragey. I tried the sit back and play it cool and get her to talk most of the time, but she is terrible at having a conversation, so I got stuck doing 70% of the work.

No.

If you now if you're friend zoned, find out by escalating. You don't have to ask em. But if you behave like a friend toward her (no escalation) you can't expect her to see you in any other light than that which you are acting like.

But no, you get friend zone based on your frame. When you're "Afraid" of the girl; or "fear" messing things up by making the wrong move you get friend zoned. When you don't care too much. I've went out with girls 3-4 times that were "wondering" when I would kiss them and I was good. I'm in control of the dynamic. If anyone gets friend zoned it will be my call. I'm in the position of leadership.

Men friend zone themselves by not showing their interest early on.

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+1

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Thanks for the advice.

Got her to stay over on the second date although nothing crazy happened, but definitely know she's way into me now.

I tried all this stuff about getting her to look at my lips and back up, triangulating gaze, gently putting my fingers to her chin but she just wasn't making decent eye contact. Finally had her back at my place and was like "fuck it" and just straight up went in for the kiss. Worked.

I think it's funny how when I finally just go "fuck it", something good ends up happening. Guess I need to have that mentality right from the start.

It's called not being outcome dependent.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

1) Seems to me she was shit testing you all night with the push/pull attitude she had with you

2) The weak eye contact can mean either she doesn't want to let on that
she is attracted to you (so she can maintain the frame control)

I doubt she was shy or else she wouldn't have touched you at all

3) If you're friend zoned or not...doesn't matter...your job is to be
so high valued...she starts chasing you

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