I'm 28 and usually go on dates using tinder. I'm a fairly good looking guy, in shape and I match with pretty hot girls who message me back.

But when I meet up with them for a drink or coffee it's usually a different story and I don't do so well. The typical drink date usually lasts for about an hour, I invite them to 'watch a movie' at my place 80% of the time they decline and I usually make out with them/ kiss goodbye at the end. But after they either don't reply at all, or ignore me when I message after the date.

I'm quite certain it has something to do with my conversation skills/body language. Even though I live a very interesting life I feel like I'm boring them probably because I'm not a great story teller. I feel like the dates go alright, most of them I usually spend listening to them nodding and smiling and being interested. I guess I struggle with the kino and escalating too. I thought going on more dates would fix my odds of success but it has only made me question myself and become kinda depressed. Not sure what help this forum and offer me but I thought it couldn't hurt to ask for advice on my game.

Thanks in advance

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I sticked post Titled " 5 Tips To A Great First Date" here: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=189168

The forming of an emotional connection is key. A woman will forget how you touched her, what you said, but she'l always remember how you made her feel. This is why I always encourage guys to pick up the phone and call her once you get her number off a dating site. If you can't establish that emotional connection over the phone, the odds are you'll be wasting your time on the date.

Theres also the idea that you get extremely pushy toward the end of the date..

How many dates has this happened in? A lot of guys go on 3 dates and get frustrated and depending on their current level, that isn't enough.

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You're not really being very specific, though here's a few pointers.

- Never kiss her at the end of the date for the first time. It's not a business meeting that concludes at the end. Do it at a highpoint, when the two of you are enjoying yourselves the most and when your escalation makes it so that it's the next natural step. Basically on an emotional high, which is never at the end. Avoid that awkward clichee.

- Always sit next to her or at a 90 degree angle so you can kino. Never sit across from each other.

- Men are visual - women are emotional. You're asking her back to your place for a movie because you wanna fuck her based on how she looks. You may be good looking, but if she doesn't feel she wants to fuck you it's not gonna happen. Hence the kissing during the date at not at the end. Making out is sexual, so if you wanna make her feel it you won't wait for unnecessary amounts of time.

The last point is probably why you're not getting replies. We're guys, we can jump from A straight to Z with little difficulty, but with women you have to go through the steps most of the times. With some you get there quicker, with others not so much, but you have to go through the steps regardless. Right now you're trying to jump, and it's not working.

You're going for it too soon. Not from a timeframe perspective but from an escalation perspective. Both emotional and physical. And that comes across as desperate. And quite frankly, it is.

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Well... your results are on par with the method you're using.

Asking a GIRL to your place on the first date is gonna be hard to pull off a lot unless you're talking to girls that really promiscuous. That's gonna be tough... Why not try building more rapport with one and getting regular sex from a girl you think is really hot?

Didn't think I'd ever say this, after a recent thread we both commented on... RC completely nailed it. Looks like we both agree when it comes to the first date.

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I grew out of the dumb shit I used to say on here. Most of my posts don't represent who I am today at all.

Thanks for the replies, they've helped me out a lot.. I'm surprised. I've gone on about 20 dates like this and only 5 of them went anywhere. Of the 5 they're usually the ones I'm least interested in, so I'm looking to improve.

I don't usually wait till the very end to go for the kiss I try to do it when we're walking back, which usually takes them by surprise which I've found to work well. But I feel if I don't at least make out then the date was a waste of my time lol.

I'm not a very social guy and I feel boring and awkward at times for some reason. Like I said I thought it would improve the more I went on but it's been a slow learning curve. Thats a great point to sit at 90 degrees.. I feel stupid sitting across, i just have to find places that sit people in that arrangement.

I'll do some reading in the forum of the links posted, go on a few more, and then follow up in a few. Thanks again

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To really translate everything that happens to you, if a woman doesn't respond to you after the date
it's because on that date you KILLED ATTRACTION by GIVING YOURSELF TOO SOON.

You obviously create some attraction just by your looks. You say you listen odd and smile when talking,
which is cool. A lot of women just like talking about themselves, and value if you can just listen.

However, when you ask them to watch a movie together on the first date, that's essentially saying

"Wanna go to my place and fuck?"

That's why 80% say no.

Before you invite them to your place, amplify that attraction.

And the best way to do that is through TEASING.

Let me give you some practical things you can do:

1. Push-Pull

You probably know this one. You push and you pull. Or pull and push.

In essence, give her a compliment, and then a slight tease. If she's blonde, say "You have beautiful hair...wait for her
to respond with THANKS, and then say, If you were a brunette, you'd be totally my type..."

Right?

Give her a compliment, pull her in and then tease her, pushing her away.

Another example is, let's say she smiles and you say, "You really have a beautiful smile...and you wait
till she says Aww thank you...and then you say...Is that...I think you have something between your
teeth..."

When she goes really? You say "Nah I'm just kidding" and wink at her.

2. Treat her like a bratty little sister and be overly comfortable with her

This one is my favourite. When you sit, plainly become overly comfortable. Even more than you are
with your best friend.

Stroke her with a napkin, tell her she's a annoying, play thumb wars with her, call her a loser - but all
in a fun way of course - don't come across as too serious.

Mimic her voice if she complains about something. Like if she say, "O I can't believe the girl at work..."
with that complaining tone, repeat it back to her with "Wa wa wa was waa" mimicking her tone when
she was complaining.

Get it?

3. Steal her frame and accuse her she's trying to seduce you

What you do here is you take the frame that she would usually give to guys - like they are being
pursued. Turn that frame around and pretend she is pursuing you. Be like doubtful of her
words, and act as if all that she's saying is about trying to seduce you.

Her: "I just love this yogurt."

You: "Aha you're trying to seduce me with loving yogurt. Nice try, you'll have to try harder"

Makes sense?

So play around with these tools my man. And if you are having challenges with approaching women
live, so you don't need to meet them on tinder, I invite you and anyone reading this to my test group.

Details in the description.

Hope this helps, and I wish you best.

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Are you short? Do you look worse in person?

I have spoken to many girls I met off of Tinder who have said they met up with a guy and he was too short. Even girls who were 5'2 at most have said this to me. Actually "bad Tinder dates" makes for a great topic of conversation on Tinder dates.

I have heard some shit man... I have heard some shit...

It's a pretty good point. I've found that girls that like me the most are usually much shorter than and also just as thin or thinner. Works out great since that's what I like too. Also usually have similar facial features :/

It's almost like it's like embedded in their genetics to make sure their partner can man handle them.

Likely they don't feel safe with you. Build some more comfort first, for women its crucial for them to feel security, if they don't it's next to impossible to get them home. But really beyond that go for a walk, get them out to another venue horse play with them a bit while engaging with them. My guess is they catch onto your intentions quick that you just want to f*ck, and ya some women are down for that but they do not want to feel sleezy/easy about it. You're moving too fast.

That's bullshit. Besides why would you want to be with a woman who's so superficial. These are limitations you've created for yourself and are simply backward rationalizing your failed experiences as being the result of these perceived limitations you hold.

This is beautiful.

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I grew out of the dumb shit I used to say on here. Most of my posts don't represent who I am today at all.

In the oft chance you aren't trolling...

Any self respecting man wouldn't put up with an openly judgmental chick on a first date who is sitting there going through a laundry list of superficial reasons as to why her previous online dating experiences were so bad. Maybe I'd get a few laughs (at her expense) but there'd be no 2nd date and I'd probably want to book shortly after knowing her as there's only so much garbage i can take in a single evening.

Turn the tables around sit there telling a girl about all the small tittied, or no ass having women you've met online and see how long she hangs around. Freaks like freaks - insecurity breeds insecurity this is why insecure people always hookup. You don't see secure people wasting time with insecure people, it just doesn't work that way. And if the chick is judgmental she can go into the parking lot and suck on a tail pipe.

Thanks for the replies fellas, I appreciate them. Sorry for the long reply, I've been putting the advice to use and been plugging away. Since the last time i visited this forum I've gone on a few more dates and slept with 5 women, 3 from tinder, 2 from work/going out. I've also been given the cold shoulder and ignored after the first date on probably 3 or 4 occasions. As is always the case the ones that are not interested in me are the ones that I really like, and would like to date, so I'm still looking for ways to improve.
On two of the failed occasions I've gone to bed with the chick and made out/ dry humped but couldn't progress to the next level, neither seemed too interested in seeing me again either.

Like I said before, before a girl has met me and only seen my pics, she appears a lot more keen and interested in me. When we meet up and she sees the type of person I am usually they are less interested, which is why I think I have a personality problem/ week body language that I need to work on. I've had on two recent occasions a random girl at a club come up to me and ask me why I look so scared. That can't be good. But when I think about it, it just makes me feel more self conscious. I'm definitely an introvert but it is something I am working hard on to change. I also feel that maybe these girls find me boring.

Does anyone have any more pointers on self improvement? My goal is to eventually find a girl I want to be in a relationship with.

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