I often hear from a lot of people that most who start PUA will never really make it or finish it. A lot of the AFCs will go back to being AFCs and some will even reside on PUAHate where they will try to actively sabotage others trying to better themselves.

Why is that the case?

Why won't most guys make it in PUA (in terms of getting a better dating life, more success with women, etc.)

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I just come on here these days to give advice and read interesting threads. Gone are the days when I came to seek advice and validation.

Because they refuse to change their views. The definition of insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting different results. They fall back into their old habits and don't want to change. Learning PUA can only open the door to reality... It is the students choice of whether or not they want to walk through it and close it behind them.

I can't really address you from the same standpoint, because as i have come to realize since i joint the community, i am a natural. Whish means, as long as i can remember, i have always had some degree of success with the opposite sex, what i thought and still think as a normal arrangement between man and women.

Even so, i guess i can make at least a small contribution to this thread, and it is quite simple.The reason why everyone can't excel when facing a new challenge, be it anything that requires skill, is mostly because of the following:
-nurturing strong core values, self imposed discipline through will power, resilience, and the most important, the ability to adapt. The last one is tricky, being the most important it requires more attention, more dedication, more energie. And for being able to evolve, to improve through adaptation, it means to reach the necessary paradigm shift so it can occur.
The reason i bring this one foreword it's because i have been reading a lot in this forum to keep pace with the rest of you, doing that, i have come across to a lot, and i mean a lot, of your post's.
And i realize that you are unable to judge what people tell you from a neutral not ego driven place. Also saw a lot of flaming back and forward, why?
Because even patient people like me get frustrated when in our good will we try to help at the expenses of our time, just to saw it hit a brick wall . Here, let me give you two examples featuring two windbags that don't fucking listen.

1) The gym dude that as fate put it, is always doing some retarded thing right next to me. For example, about four days ago when i was finishing my stretching exercises, i glanced to the side and saw the dude holding is body posture as someone that had just been run over by a truck, worst that that he was executing an exercise (dead lift) in a way that would challenge the common sense of a retarded non educated ten year old child. Then, doing my 'job' as a respectable somewhat altruist human being, i proceed to explain to him what he doing wrong and showed him to do it properly. The thing is, i wasn't surprised when i saw him today doing exactly the same thing, in the exact same way i explained him not to. And it wasn't the first time i gave him advice, advice he himself as ask me for for several occasions. This young man, will never, never achieve anything unless he radically shift his behavior towards what me and other people have been telling him for a long time. Simple because e can't recognize and absorb constructive criticism. He is not the only one, he falls in the huge statistical gap of people that pay the gym feeds but got almost nothing out of it. As i have discussed in today's lunch with my tall, natural blonde, almond eyes, chiseled PT (she is very inaccessible due her professional life, that's the reason i got her as my trainer). These people, next to all the things that i listened above, they can´t cut their learning curve, and thus, keep making the same mistakes over and over again...

2) The Facebook guy, well, it will take me an eternity describing everything that i perceive to be wrong whit is 'methods', so i am going to cut it short. Every time this guy meets a girl that displays some interest in him, he then proceeds to go online, find her account, and after given permission to access it, or not (open account), tracks all her close friends and relatives and creep them away with a flood of intimate, personal questions about her. Then after being scoul by the girl herself (there is always a snitch, lol), he cries his lungs out justifying his behavior as being right. The thing is, every now and then he finds a high tolerant, or desperate one, that forgives him. Then he does something even more retarded that eventually scares her away to. This guy is a twenty five year old virgin that suffers from the same affliction that the gym dude, he doesn't listen, he doesn't evolve. He asks whitout interruption asks for advice, hear it, and then give it back with some lame excuses. Leaving him always the same results for the same experience, as he designed.

What is common to this type of man a and women, is that they strongly believe that it is the rest of the world that needs changing and not themselves. That's why they will cling to every idea that resembles their distorted view, and immediately dismiss all the other ones (good or not) as an offense to their identity.

Everyone needs motivation, and a good part of motivation comes from the support of our peers, whether we like or not, we crave it, as social creatures we are, we need it. So dismissing the advice and encouragement that is given to us (for free) will only hurt us, because it will prevent us from improve.

Hope it rang a bell, any bell...

B/c there too busy talking online instead of talking to girls.

Because it is a lot of hard work. People don't want to put in that much effort...or it can be that failure is discouraging which can be another factor. Lots of variables to consider!

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In a funk? Read this

pua-lounge/the-importance-patience-this ... his%20game

It requires a lot of failing which people are afraid of.

A few reason actually.

Most guys who find and enter the community are socially awkward and weird. Instead of first working on becoming "normal" and socially well adjusted, they instead focus on learning seduction techniques.

Their trying to run before they can even walk. You don't go from crawling to running, thats just not how it works. Guys need to first learn how to be normal and socially calibrated. If you cant go out, make friends and talk to hot women without shaking and being overly nervous, you don't need to be learning seduction techniques.

The second reason is guys don't want to put in the work. Most community guys don't want to go thru the pain of approaching and being rejected a lot.

Theres actually quite a few reasons but those are the two biggest ones.

EDIT: Paramount, are you ever going to learn to post General Questions in the GENERAL QUESTIONS forum?

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Never get broken up with again: the-addiction-formula-never-get-broken- ... 88794.html

Because most people that get in to PUA are manic depressives that get in during their manic phase. Any time there's a discrepancy between perception and reality, its going to harm you. They think that PUA is this book of magic that they just discovered and that the world is now their oyster.
I see so many posts that read:
"I'M GONNA GO OUT AND RISE TO THE DAY AND HAVE SO MANY BEAUTIFUL WOMEN BECAUSE I'M AMAZING AND I DESERVE IT"
But, at the end of they day, most guys are just chumps with no strength of character, no determination, and distorted world views that are going to creep on some babes, get shot down in flames, get frustrated,
and go back down to masturbating to WoW porn with cheeto grease in their basement. Most of the rest end up doing last call runs on bars and convincing themselves that the girl they brought back at closing is an HB9 and that they scored it big.
PUA is not a shortcut. If you treat it as such, you'll fail. PUA is a tool that can be used only once you've grown enough to use it judiciously and with tempered expectations.

interesting tips and advice, some of the advice given to me in the past is the one I have realized through experience alone has been true

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I just come on here these days to give advice and read interesting threads. Gone are the days when I came to seek advice and validation.

Because actually getting proficient, as defined as "getting what you want out of relationships with women a reasonable amount of the time," requires mind-blown-wide-open paradigm shifts that a lot of guys can't handle.

They prefer to place blame on a particular woman, or women in general, rather than admit that perhaps it's their own point of view which is skewed to begin with.

When many guys are shown reality that does not match with their preconceived notions, they freak out and dig in even harder to their previous beliefs. It is the definition of "attitude inoculation:"

The best way to reinforce someone's belief that he's right, is to show him a small amount of evidence to the contrary.

Then they go full-steam on why the contradicting evidence is wrong, solidifying their original position.

(This is also why talking shit about a girl's boyfriend backfires, btw).

The sticking points that really matter are internal; how much of the Matrix you see, how much of it you understand and accept, how much of yourself you overcame to get to the top of the mountain like that.

That is the HARD WORK that many guys simply would rather not do, despite their claims to the contrary. They just want a few tricks to make that hot chick at the bar their girlfriend, with no understand whatsoever of how boyfriend/girlfriend dynamics work and why it's a terrible idea to want someone you don't know to be in a monogamous relationship with you.

They'll either live and they'll learn, or they won't and they won't.

Choose your destiny.

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For my unfiltered rants on Game and Gender Dynamics, check out "The Mask And Rose:"
http://themaskandrose.wordpress.com

Its quite simple every person that tries to become a pick up artist, isn't destined to actual become one. Its just like becoming a pro basketball player. I'm sure there is thousands of guys who aspire to become the next Lebron or Kobe or whoever but only a small fraction of those guys have the raw talent, perseverance, self-discipline, confidence, or belief in themselves to actual succeed.

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"The bird sets itself on fire… and in the embers is an egg. In order to do great things, you've got to recreate yourself again ,and you can’t do that holding to a glory or a failure from yesterday. "

It has nothing to do with "destiny" man. You control your own destiny. You are the one in control of your own life. Your level ambition is what determines your destiny. It is your attitude, not your aptitude, that determines your altitude.

Michael Jordan, unarguably the greatest basketball player of all time, was cut from try outs on his high school basketball team.

The Beatles were turned down by Decca Records because they "didn't like their sound" and told them "They have no future in show business."

Albert Einstein was unable to speak until he was 4 years old and was told by his teachers that he "wouldn't amount to much."

Walt Disney was fired from a news paper company for "lacking imagination" and "having no original ideas"

Oprah Winfrey was demoted from her job as a news anchor because she wasn't "fit for television."

You see, all these great influences in our lives have failed and were told they we never going to make it. Had they listened to the people who told them to give up, they would not be the people that they are today.

The most reason people who want to learn the pick up arts never actually become successful is because they are afraid of actually failing. They blame the routines not working or whatever. Instead of finding ways to fix the problems and create the life for themselves that they want, they make excuses. They are looking for the "magic pill" to help them become a pick up artist and refuse to realize, just like anything of value in life, it takes a lot of fucking hard work and determination. You can LEARN to have self discipline and you can LEARN to believe in yourself and YOUR BELIEFS BECOME YOUR REALITY. Atleast that's how I teach it. Perception is everything brother. If you can invision yourself as a pick-up artist, you can become a pick-up artist. You've just got to want to become it badly enough.

I agree with everything you've said, but it can be argued that they all did those things since they were destined to first fail and then succeed. I believe in fate but I also believe in hard work and humanism, so before we get to a philosophical debate, I in a way agree with you.

Either way, to add to what everyone has said, most people fail because they are lazy. It is much easier to do nothing, than to do something.

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A morning of awkwardness is far better than a night of loneliness.

18 Body Language Mistakes I Bet You're Making

great thread paramount21

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Majikal and his quality posting, if only more members of this forum were like that.

BTW, you left out Tom Brady lol.

But anyways I have found that in my experience of seeking advice on PUA forums to game certain kinds of women, I never got anything specific. Yet, after putting myself out there, being rejected enough to the point I was not scared of rejection I have learned more than I have learned by chatting with people on here about attraction. Like I know some kinds of women require different game than other kinds of women and different kinds of approaches. At the end of the day, the hardest part is doing it (pun not intended). We can have all the knowledge in the world but if we have not taken action, then that knowledge becomes a waste. Also, a lack of action creates limiting beliefs which I used to have but now I don't have them as much anymore.

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I just come on here these days to give advice and read interesting threads. Gone are the days when I came to seek advice and validation.