I have not read all the responses but my 2 cents on this:
You met at a social gathering. He doesn't owe to buy you a drink especially few minutes after you met. It would have been a good gesture though to ask you if you wanted and in that case it would have been a good gesture from you to get the second round if that happened. Would you have done that?

Perhaps it is his principle not to buy drinks in the first meeting but from the other things you described he does sound cheap.

Personally, I get turned off by women who do not offer to pay anything or share the bill and I wait to see If this is the pattern after few outings. There is different cases. I went out twice with this girl, first time I paid for her drink, I don't remember if she offered to pay however I had already told her couple days before that was on me because I lost a bet.

Second time, we were at sports bar got some food to share (eaten mostly by me), she didn't offer to pay and I would begin to have negative predisposition against her. The third time I got again some food to share (which I mostly ate by again myself cause she wasn't very hungry) and shisha, however this time she wanted to pay the full bill and I appreciated the gesture. I did not accept of course and paid the full thing myself; told her she can get it the next time and I am definitely letting her if she offers to pay.
Totally unnecessary to say. He invites you out, he could pay for the drinks and let's say he already paid the first 2 rounds then you should DEFINITELY offer to get the third one, no question about it.
It is totally off putting the talking about fish and wine and then bringing spaghetti with water. Huge turn off. Was it student like plain spaghetti with ready made sauce, or did he put effort in making some descent pasta? Sounds like the former.

If a guy really wants you he will put more of an effort and he sounds like either he doesn't have the class to do that or he just plainly put the minimal effort that he thought he could get away with.
WRONG WRONG WRONG!! What is an "actual date" anyway? Why would he "invest" in terms of money instead of having a good time and fun together. He doesn't know you yet and he does not owe you anything. Some of the best first dates can be really cheap. Get rid of that idea from your mind of the "actual date" stereotype and stop categorizing the expectation of type of first dates depending on the socioeconomic status of the person you will meet. Look into the interaction you have, if you get along, the effort. Besides why would someone be willing to spend a good chunk of money to someone who could be totally not compatible/ no chemistry / gold-digger etc.
I agree on principle about the generousity; the guy could also see how you react and form an opinion about you too. Did you just have a sip and then you immediately reacted with a very opinionated strong argument "This is too bad. I am not drinking this" and you set it aside. He could offer you another one, he could offer to swap drinks, or you could just ask the barman or waiter if it is possible to replace it or put some more ice to make it less strong etc without leaving it to the guy. If he offers to do the gesture then more kudos to him.

I agree about not being cheap but I also got a bit of feeling that you could be the type of girl who feels self entitled (you mentioned the "actual date" hey) and seldom offers to share the bill.

I hope you realize it, it is generally less about the money and mostly about the fact that guys need to feel appreciated!

I never said you told him to get anything. I said you had no problem ACCEPTING a big gesture like that:
So you are arguing a made up point to dodge my question. So I'll ask it again:

Wtf did you do to show that you were a woman worthy of ANYTHING?

PS-Please dont tell me you think that eating the food is what makes you a good woman. I'll say it clearly: WHAT DID YOU BRING TO THE TABLE WITH THIS GUY?

I've asked her this same question multiple times. Each time she avoided answering.

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Yeah bro, she avoided my question too. Oh well.

Women don't communicate or like to take responsibility directly....just how it is . There are the uncommons that do, but just how the world works.


At least the OP has finally admitted that she doesn't want to date guys out of her socioeconomic class. So be it. Can't do much for that over the internet. She has preference: men with money just like her. But men who spend money.

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I have no problem with this at all. If that's what she wants, than I seriously hope she finds the guy that will do that for her. Personally, I don't think that she is asking for a lot...I just don't like the entitled attitude that comes with it. I know that there had to be some attractive qualities about him that made her keep coming back that made her want to give him a chance, outside of physical attraction.

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Same here, she has her set of personal standards. We all do. I wouldn't date an obese girl. Maybe a few pounds but nothing excessive. She has to be cute tho.

So with that said, yes the entitlement belief is there. And you are right, there are attractive behavior traits that she liked in that guy that she put up with his lack of charm for a bit. Same reason some/most girls date that jerk in their lifetime, even tho the guy is a dick to her, they are displaying attractive behavior traits at the same time.

But this is why I don't take female advice. Not because i am a sexist, it is because girl don't understand the process of seduction through the eyes of a man. It will be hard for a woman to describe the behavior traits of a man that she liked. It's a non-conscious thing. A girl has never have made an approach, seduced or made love to a woman so whenever I see a woman giving advice to another man, I cringe because I know she is going to give conventional advice most of the time or advice that has been influenced on her by society.


I do agree with the OP on the guy commenting on prices. That was good. Don't make prices a big deal. Don't make paying a big deal if you opt to do so.

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Be kind, courteous, and generous but being "nice" is being fake -- not being true to who you are, OP. Where has socially acceptable nice bullshit ever gotten anybody?

You don't know that. Perhaps you never will because asking on here isn't going to answer your questions.

I think its more that women like the OP are NOT the type of women we would want guys to date. That is, women who feel like you need to win them over or who gain validation from the amount of money you spend. Look at her description of the events with this dude...Nothing positive, (except for she found him attractive). Nothing about his charm, nothing about the good conversation. Yet she continued to go out with him, not because she was giving him a chance....lets be real, this was her best option. These are the women who only notice the money you spend, your looks and the effort you put in to win them. Doesnt matter the fun you have with them or what connection you build with them. They think that what makes them a catch is their degree, they bring nothing to the table besides their looks, claim they are good women because they would cook and clean and give you wild sex, never show you a sign of these good things, then wonder why you dont put in effort into someone who is not doing anything besides sitting there. Then they'd string you along and pat themselves on the back for their generosity for giving you a chance. These are not the type of women we want men to improve themselves for. She has the right to like what she likes, but I can say that no man who isnt just looking for a trophy, is going to waste time with a chick who brings nothing to the table, but expects you to work for this "invisible" worth that she has.

If I meet you, and Im getting a drink, I'd offer one, same way I'd offer a guy I met and I got a drink. But I'm not paying for your time. I'm having fun; I dont care about your degree or whatever else, your value to me is the fun we are having. If I see that you're just accepting my generosity and not doing anything for ME, well its either just bang or I'll just leave. A chick who is analyzing how much money you're spending in relation to your income, is NOT having fun and prob not fun to be around. If I'm a billionaire and I pay for your coffee, you're just a girl I'm trying to get to know. Maybe next time, GIVE instead of expecting, and bring something else to the table besides your looks and resume.

I do offer to pay each and every time.
I reacted politely and mildly.

Yes, I realize men need to feel appreciated but so do women. But a man is the stronger sex, in my opinion. Therefore, the first few meetings, he should be putting in a tad more effort to impress the woman. These are my preferences. The same way some men have preferences for blondes (or whatever), I have my preferences and having a stingy dude counting the change is not in the equation.

To me, the thought matters more than the action, and how it was done.

You seem to really hate women and make grand conclusions when you know half of the story.
No problem accepting a big gesture like that? Well, if I were to detail every single action at your insistence, I have refused him politely. Maybe you want to know the exact words? Should I tell you also what happened during our phone conversation? During the 1 hour? Like a detailed minute by minute account?

You REALLY are putting a lot of effort into hate, and hating me.

You should care about a woman's degree and career. If you were to get married to her, and she earns significantly less than you, your footing the bill. And since you men want to equalize the field and make sure she's bringing enough to the table, start paying attention to her salary.

There are plenty of men out there that feel a woman owes the world to them if they pay for dinner. Really now?

Thirdly, I said I would not date a millionaire, but someone closer to my socioeconomic range. How is that bad, again?

Fourthly, bringing what to the table? I've had male friends tell me, "She's great, kind, beautiful, but she earns so little that I'd be the one supporting her in the long run." Ouch.

So, if bringing looks and a career to the table isn't good enough, then what is? Personality? Well, since you guys are bitching about who will pay what, not sure how her great personality will pay the bills.

It's EVERYTHING you bring to the table- looks, career, personality, etc. If you don't care about her career, but care about her looks and personality, then don't complain if she can't afford to pay her share for outings.

Lol. You pulled the misogynistic card.
My words before:
I seriously think you're trolling to make women look bad here.

You made me lose my point with dj where I was yelling him that most women don't think as you do that you need to spend money for their time. No one cares about your preferences. You'll just find that the goal here is to meet women who bring more than you do. Nothing wrong with that... No one cares who you date or don't.

See reading this I have a different perspective (though I can see why some guys find these comments incendiary). To me this is about feeling desired. The OP isn't demanding guys pay out-the-ass for a date with her, or any woman for that matter. It's about sub communicating desire.

I wouldn't invite a girl over for desert and serve pop tarts and grape tang. Why? It's not the kind of guy I was raised to be - and perhaps for some that's old fashioned. As the guy the script is for me to set the tone; we're in fact encouraged to do this within the PUA community itself. I like the debonair persona, its who I am and I feel sexy (to myself) when I'm grounded in it. For me it's the little things, the nuances which build attraction, not the overt moves (at least outside of the bedroom). So in this respect I get what the OP is saying.

The who-should-pay-for-dates question is as old as time itself.

I have 3 female friends I got 3 very different answers from regarding this question:

Friend 1 (traditional, assertive, confident): "If he doesn't pay for my date then I know there's likely not going to be a second one. It's his duty as a man to be chivalrous."

Friend 2 (more liberal-minded, easy going, go-with-the-flow, extraverted): "I always offer to pay. I don't need a man to foot the bill. Plus I don't want to feel I *owe* him something."

Friend 3 (girly girl, bit short on self-confidence, passive): "If he doesn't pay for my meal, he doesn't like me."


For myself, I have 0 issue paying the bill. At least for the first bit. If it carries on however and she doesnt even so much as offer to split the bill then its something I'll address with her. Its the EXPECTATION of paying the bill that I'd take issue with, not the actual payment of the bill.

I had an ex who had some gold-digger tendencies who in fact bizarrely enough after a year of dating told me its the man's duty to pay for every meal, which I laughed at and told her that this isn't going to work. I took her home only for her to recant, but the fact that was her mentality was quite telling. Same girl would take issue for me having to ask her sometimes to pay for parking - we're talking a few dollars at most (to places I'd drive her to), as I don't carry change. Never mind the gas, and my time for driving her. A gold-digger mentality is fine if you want to feel like you're in a quid-quo-pro relationship, but if not then I'd definitely take issue with women who have a "I deserve this and that because I am hot" mentality. Funny enough this girl keeps trying to come back into my life every few months or so. Dealing with a self-entitled woman is the worst, and its a massive indicator that this type of person also takes no accountability in a relationship. My point? Her expectations are a good indicator as to where her values are at. If she's not adding anything much to the interaction apart from having a vagina and a cute face, then as Neo said either keep it purely sexual, or toss her for someone better.

This is hilarious and the theme of this entire post. The man has to prove something to you while you do nothing but be impressed.

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To have sex, is no biggie. Yeah, I don't like the chick, but let me get a squeeze out of her.

Some of you are complaining about spending $10 on a drink but it's okay to use a girl for sex (by the way, a hooker charges way more than $10).

In my book, that is wrong. I have never done it, hence my partner count is extremely low. I'm not in for casual dating, casual sexing, etc.

In your book, that is totally acceptable. I'm fine with that.