well Im from the UK birmingham if anyone actually knows but I need some help with approaching and holding down a conversation I seem to freeze to go upto a woman in the mall for example as at the moment dont have time to go bars etc etc due to family commitments........ I mean Ive read nearly every opener...... how would u approach a HB8/9 whose with her mate or on her own in a shoe shop/clothes shop i obivously could use an opinion opener but I feel as though im coming across to direct as after the opener the conversation dies obviously my fault wanna know how to approach properly obviously im working on confidence... but how do i close i seem to much of a coward to close ....... but i thought id ask u for help as ur feedback is amazing

This is the big problem I have with canned openers. People have specific openers that they use for specific scenarios and aside from those times, they don't know what to say, cause they're stuck in canned material.

Next time you see a set you want to approach, I suggest you scrap whatever canned opener you might have ready (once you've opened the set, use some canned material if you have to) and just walk up and say, "Hi there!" then whatever the first thing that comes to your head is, whether it is a neg about the shoes she's looking at, the shirt she's wearing, something she just did, or something on your mind. Hell, I go up to girls and just say random stuff all the time and as long as my frame is strong and I am funny, they don't care whether I've asked them how to play the game of darts they have going, or if I told them that their purse was run over by a truck and was previously a cat.

Here's what I tell my students when they turn to me and say, "What should I say, what opener do I use?!"

"You don't have to say something good, just say SOMETHING." ~ Rye Lee

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Time for some push/pull tactics.

She needs to know that this isn't kosher and if he's going to be coming around screwing things up, she needs to get it taken care of, or you won't stick around, cause that's not fair to you. If she asks you to take care of him, depending on what she asks of you, it may or may not be reasonable, so you may have to make a tough decision.

If I were with a girl that I had a great connection with and this was happening, I would let her know that it bothers me when he's around and influencing her life. If he's got partial custody of the child, then you have to be able to accept that he's gonna be around and influencing the kid's life, as well as interacting with the girl, but that doesn't mean he should be dictating to her how to live her life and if he's doing that, then it needs to stop. You're with her by choice and if she chooses to continue letting him influence her life in a big way, then you feel like it is getting in the way of the connection you two share (say that to her, it will impact her).

People tend to confuse emoting with being an AFC, which isn't always the case. There are times when you need to let your partner know how they are affecting you and what you are feeling, it's one of the 4 main attraction switches, "willingness to emote" and it will bring you closer together if you have a bond. If you don't have a connection where this sort of conversation will have much influence on her, she won't listen to it, or she will think you're being a wuss, then you walk, cause she's not respecting you and YOU are a pickup artist, so you have your pick of women and you WILL find a better one. Don't let her control you.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Rye,

Kudos to you for creating this thread.

I have several quick questions.

1. I asked a girl out to lunch through my work email and she says she is meeting up with others from her department but I am welcome to join her. Last week, I emailed her and she said she was tied up and that we'll meet later. Should I accept her invitation? What should I do after I accept / decline?

2. What is the best method for gaming chicks in a very loud club, and perhaps get a number? I tried to approach but couldnt even hear what the girls were saying.

Dear Rye,

How's it hanging bro, you should totally teach me how to juggle one of these days.

1) I'm still having trouble calibrating how much the chick should talk. And of course I can't just ask her how much she'd like to talk. I know this varies from girl to girl, but do you know any good tricks to finding out exactly how much you should contribute to a conversation once in comfort?

2) OK so you've just had an awkward silence in your convo because of the aforementioned problem. How to recover? Anything different you should do with body language and voice tonality?

3) Say you've got a girl I haven't seen in awhile coming over, any advice on what to do and what to avoid? Reinitiate attraction? Or dive straight into comfort. I ask because I know you've had some recent experiences in this regard.

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afc-challenge-to-the-masters-social-anx ... 10108.html

Thanks man, always appreciated!

1st. Of course accept her invite, you aren't going to get a lot done, but you an establish more rapport in order to make a better more isolated meeting after work or something. Go to lunch and just be friendly. Pay more attention to everyone else, as they are the "obstacles", but you still want to show her some attention. If you need help figuring out how much to give and how to go about treating her as far as negging in front of the group goes, I suggest reading The Game and/or Venusian Arts/Mystery Method.

2nd. If it's gonna be so loud that you just can't hear each other, I like to talk a bit, they can't hear, so they start looking at you puzzled. I smile REAL big, as if it's funny that she didn't hear, just I was saying something good and then I motion her to come with me somewhere quieter. You an also get them to lean in, but don't lean in to them, unless they are leaning in to you first.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

1 & 2) There shouldn't be silence for longer than a couple seconds (I don't mean 4 or 5, I mean 1 or 2 seconds, no more).

You are watching her, looking at her eyes, her mouth, her body language, you want to see whether she looks like she wants to say something. If she wants to say something, you give her the floor. When she's not showing signs of desire to talk, you talk, talk, talk, talk. Keep an eye out and remember to pause for sufficient length to give her chances to say something from time to time, especially after things that you expect a person to respond to.

Sometimes people will just let you talk and talk, without ever butting in, even if they have something to say, so it's perfectly acceptable to say, "Hey, if you don't stop me, I'm just gonna keep on talking, I've got that many interesting things to talk about, I could keep going all night! I wanna hear what's on your mind though." Or even, "You look like you have something you want to say." Give a palm up gesture to them halfway between you and them, at solar plexus level, to indicate that you desire them to share with you to increase their desire to talk back.

3) I'm actually going to see a girl in a couple weeks, that I had a lot of attraction and comfort with back in October or November. We talk now and then on MSN, but she's not on there a ton, so we're not as close as I would like, although whenever we do talk, the rapport is through the roof and it feels as if she's practically giving herself to me (I don't know how else to describe it, it's so powerful). You'd think with something like this, where she's telling me not to stay in a hotel, but to come stay with her and all sorts of other signs of excitement for me coming, that I would jump straight into comfort, but because I haven't been physically close, I'm gonna start partway into attraction.

Now I don't run game based upon the M3 model and I honestly haven't even read it yet, so I can't tell you whether it's A2, A3 or what. What I can tell you, is that I'm gonna jump straight into kino, give her a big hug when I first see her and give her those eyes that say, "I missed you and god damn I'm glad to be near you again." After that, you want to neg a little, but make it playful and fun, get her negging you back if you can. Tell some DHV stories that happened in between when you last saw each other and talk about some stuff that happened when you hung out in the past so that she feels more of a connection to you and more comfortable with you, while doing kino throughout. Give some SOIs, then kiss and you should know the rest.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Yeah, that's a question i have.

I'm in HS. This HB8.5-9 sits behind me. I've made sure to try to create rapport and such, but like whenever I neg she just takes it. What do you do when facing that kind of girl.

Use some self deprecating humor, to show that it's ok to make fun of you and you don't think you're better than her. Sometimes people will think that if you are making jokes at them, that you are teasing them and trying to do it in a bullying way, where you think you're better than them. By showing that you are just having fun and you want to be negged in turn, it gives her permission to do so and she will neg you.

Another thing I'll do if that still doesn't work, is flat out tell her, "Hey, you're supposed to bust my balls back you know."

There's certain things that people require other people to have, or do in order for the other person to want to have a relationship with them. As Skittlepimp said in a post, people will bend on certain things, like height, weight, hair colour, but things like race, religion, those are things that people generally are pretty inflexible. One of the things I won't bend on and that it sounds like you won't bend on, is having the girl want to joke back with you, so it's alright to let her know that is one of your qualifiers.

I was at the bar a couple weeks ago and I was play darts with this girl. She had told me she was pretty bad and later admitted drunk as well and I said I wasn't that great myself, but we'd have fun anyways.

She say, "First one to hit 1-3," so I let her go first, aiming for the 1. 2 darts hit the wall and one hits the very top of the dart board! It was terrible, like dear god! So I'm teasing her, then I take my turn and did the exact same thing! I just laugh.

So she goes again and hits the wall with 2, one of which bounces off and hits the floor and the other somewhere on the numbered part this time. I'm buggin her again, but she's smiling and laughing, having fun, I've got her 4 friends all in on it, joking with all of them, telling them how bad she is and such.

I go again and do the same damn thing. I swear I wasn't trying and I had only gotten half way into my first drink, but I was either so bad, or just mirroring her so well that I was doing just as bad as her, even though I used to play a lot of darts at my Dad's place years ago.

She starts asking me how I can give her a hard time when I'm just as bad, so I tell her, "We're not taking turns throwing darts at the board here sweetheart, we're taking turns making fun of each other." I look at her with this huge smile, cause what else can you do when you dictate to a girl what the rules of the game are, right? Show the confidence in the rules you've laid out and she'll accept them.

After that, she was busting on me just as hard as I was on her. I actually used something that I had read by The Doctor on here, his Brownie Points "routine" (not sure what else to call it). Basically tell her that you don't sleep with a girl until she's earned a ridiculously high number, like 362 million Brownie Points, then say that she just did ______, so she's got 7 Brownie Points. ***NOTE THIS*** You need to have established a little bit of comfort to use this, cause otherwise you come off as a jackass that thinks he can have any girl he pleases and it's just a little too cocky. Whereas later, with more comfort, it comes off as just a silly game and it's for shits and giggles, but it makes her think about having sex with you, so that makes the possibility real for herand makes it easier for you to make it true.

So, back to the story; she beat me at darts, so I owed her a drink, haha! So I tell her the Brownie Points thing, telling her she got 8 for beating me at darts. She looks me in the eye, smiles and says, "Wow, that's pretty good. I bet that works really well with inexperienced girls, makes them try to impress you?" So I'm thinking, "Holy shit, either I'm busted, or I met a girl that CAN impress me." So I say, "It's just a game. What, you don't like to play the games?" She replies, "Yeah, I'm just have to give you a hard time." I set the condition for something to happen between us and she qualified to it. The equivalent of a shit test almost.

So yes, you can either outright tell her what you're expecting from her, that will set it as a condition and she's either gonna agree to it, or not, so it's better to use that once you've got e fair bit of interest. You can also make fun of yourself and hope that she sees that as permission to make fun of you. The key to the first, is being confident and showing that that's who you are and you require that in order to bother continuing (not like a jerk though). The key to the second, is to laugh and show that you enjoy making jokes, regarless of whether it is you, them, or anyone or anything, you just want to have a good laugh and you want them to join in.

Hope that novel helps!

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Lol it did thanks man.
Read my PM btw.

And also, I was thinking about this and I was telling myself, maybe I just need to get a bit more comfort with this girl. She's like an 8.5-9. Short and cute and i sit in front of her in class.
Apparently, she likes it when I speak french to her, so I'm just going to be working on that now.

Don't build too much comfort and then attempt to start negging, because then she is going to be confused, because it wasn't part of your personality up until that point. Throws the attraction off a bit and you have to rebuild, plus it's gonna break rapport, basically screwing up all that comfort you just worked for. Instead, make it who you are from the get-go. If you have a frame that say, "Look, this is me. Take it or leave it and if you're gonna take it, then let's have some fun and give it back to me to." Then she'll comply with that and either accept you and love it, or reject you, there shouldn't be middle ground.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Ok. a little update on it. Btw, whenever i talk to girls, it's not really to pick them up but see how close i can come to dating them..It's weird i know.

So today I used the "you can bust me back" thing and she was like i know and just said she has to be in the mood to do it, or something like that, I go so you don't like playing games, she says she does but she's just not very happy with the weather and all that.

This is the part that pisses me off. Everytime I try to initiate kino, she's like "Why are you touching me" or something like that. She said that since she is older then me and is a senior, I'm not allowed to do it. Today I tried telling her so your the kind of people that judges people's maturity on age level? and she said yes.
I go that's pretty shallow, and she tried to explain me how it's not, but is something to do with chemistry and blah blah..
So she was pretty much trying to cock-block me and stuffs..

I was soo pissed. I just hate when people think that they are above you because of something. I'm thinking of freezing her for a little bit, and like if she asks for my help in class, I'll just say "Why don't you just ask someone that's more mature then me" or something, thought I have a feeling that it won't work...

I think the problem with that, is that it sounds kinda childish, you are trying to show her that she is the one being childish, so when you talk to her, don't be antagonistic, be logical and out-think her. When someone gets all uppity on me about their intelligence, I just take them to fucking school. Doesn't matter what you school them on, just as long as it is something demonstrating intelligence and relevant to the conversation.

She comes to you for help with homework, you find out what she needs help with, talk to her about it a bit, maybe help her just the tiniest bit, but not nearly enough to satisfy her. Then tell her that you can't cause you have to do something that demonstrates maturity.

Now she sees you as intelligent and a desireable and rare person. Those are both traits not commonly found in immature people. Then you blow her off to do something more important that show's you're just as mature, or more so than her. She will feel childish and then you slowly give her more or less attention based upon whether her attitude changes. If she can't accept someone your age as being mature, then she's just broken and you aren't going to fix her, so move on before it becomes oneitis.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Hmm..Good point.

What things do you mean by that demonstrates maturity.

I'm pretty limited since we are in class, in HS.

Well most of it is just about how you act. You don't act like you're better than them, cause you're not concerned with that, you're just gonna focus on making sure you take care of your stuff first. So when she asks you for help on her homework, tell her you've got yours to work on and maybe if you have some time when you're done and she's been nice, you'll help her out (I don't use "good" any more, cause a girl said it made her feel like I was treating her like a dog and demeaning her).

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye