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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:10 am 
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Dear Masters of PUAF,

Having just read through many of your perceptive and helpful posts on this forum, I thought some of you may be up for a challenge of sorts.

You see, I am an AFC. I do not accept it by choice on any level, be it subconsciously or unconsciously. Yet, years of social programming have restrained my natural instincts...and dare I say "talents"...to the point where not only do I get nervous around HB's, I get nervous around PEOPLE in general!

Here's the funny part: before I ever heard of a PUA, or how to open with a 10 set with a double neg, I WAS DOING IT instinctively. Yes, I knew, almost by instinct when I first hit the club scene, that when approaching HB's of 9 and 10 caliber that I would have to ignore them initially and then only acknowledge them with teasing negs. I am not doing this to brag, only to indicate the significance of what I am going to tell you next:

The problem is, once I do get the attention and interest of the set and my target, the social programming kicks in and I GET NERVOUS. My muscles "twitch" and I stamp my feet or fidget, and my voice becomes progressively weaker. It takes increasing effort just to speak.

Now you must know what comes next. Having (or at least made the appearance of) established myself as the social alpha of my new group, I get nervous, and inevitably, almost on cue every time, so do my all of the subjects in the set. And as many of you know, once your body language betrays your role, your game is all but done. PUA->AFC in less than a second.

In fact, this problem is so serious that it is killing me in my professional life as well, where the social dynamics of working in groups and having meetings are only slightly different than a club scene. Whenever we're in a conference with colleagues, even in a casual setting, I'd inevitably get nervous. This is very distracting in a work environment, and ultimately will be detrimental in the new job that I started.

So here is the challenge. Can anyone here, perhaps a master of the psychoanalytic arts, diagnose and prescribe a cure for this burden of mine and make me the PUA that I was meant to be?

Signed,
Road2Alpha


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:28 pm 
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I'm no master PUA but I know what they'll say (poet and I didn't know it haha). You need to be more alpha, just don't even care. You won't win over everyone but by caring more about yourself than what someone else thinks you'll come off as a more confident, comfortable person. By worrying you're only dragging yourself down further and further. You're the only person you'll ever be, one chance, one life. Look at the guy with the great position, all the ladies, and a nice place to go. You think he cares what others think?

- WhatI'veGot


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:13 pm 
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Sarge, sarge, sarge, sarge, sarge!

The more people you talk to, the more comfortable you'll feel opening a set with complete strangers. There are very few aternatives to a good sarge.

Even If you aren't confident, you can fake it till you are a bit. The one thing that gives a nervous guy away is EYE CONTACT! If you dont look someone in the eyes when you talk to them, or they are talking to you, you instantly DLV. Try not to figet, look them in the eyes and tell them something interesting!

Best of luck mate.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:54 pm 
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Sarge, sarge, sarge, sarge, sarge!
i agree but other thjings that may help is taking up a sport.. something that will make u feel good about yourself and your body... i no u probally are goin to say 'i feel totally fine with how i look' but even if u feel fine now... u will feel ace when u have do it...

and imagen the stories that u could tell for dhv if u took up rock climbing or maybe mini golf ahahaha

but yeah if u make yourself feel better in your body it also shows through your body language .. that confidence.

also start readin books by all the gurus.. they will really help change u.

good luck

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:26 am 
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Great responses.

WhatI'veGot---"once chance, one life". Awesome quote man, I'm using that tomorrow when I start to get nervous after an approach.

Valmont---I hear what you're saying, practice makes perfect. It's just that when I approach, the anxiety is actually pretty low. But it's after the approach, say 3 minutes in, that's when I start to fidget and lose eye contact. The more I try to control the fidgeting, the more self conscious I become, and the less eye contact I have with my audience. And the more self conscious I become, the more I fidget, causing me to lose eye contact completely.

It's a vicious cycle that I've actually analyzed while it's happening, but I can't seem to find a way to break the cycle. Maybe someone implanted a post hypnotic suggestion on me when I was young or something...just wish I could somehow snap my finger and make it gone.

Until then, I take your advice to heart: Sarge away!

Gammbit---I work out regularly, in fact I've played sports most of my life and actually have a decent, muscular physique that women tend to find attractive on my 5'7 frame. You're right that taking up rock climbing would make for great stories, and I'll try to do that when I have some time.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:35 am 
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I recommend starting by talking with whatever groups of people you find not intimidating, but not easily comfortable to talk to. Like, start with asking the guy ahead of you at the groccery store, or the coffee shop, where he got his bag (I did this today and we had a short chat about how he was looking for one too, but it was his brother's and he didn't know where he got it from) you'll be amazed when you find out that guy that looks so Alpha, is really just a nice guy like you if you approach them as equals.

If you feel more comfortable talking to women than men because you feel other men are more dominant than you, then sarge like a mother fucker and it will give you the confidence to feel alpha enough to talk to guys just fine. Remember the key thing, its exactly like weight lifting (which I thought I read you do?); make sure to always push yourself a little farther than is easy, but not so far that you break.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:09 pm 
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Pretty arrogant request of you Road2Alpha...




...I like that. =).

Well, I know EXACTLY what your going through, and it's even more than just a PUA symptom.

It's a fear of SUCCESS.

You're the leader of your group, but it is because of that that you feel TREMENDOUS pressure and cant concentrate. You feel that, as the leader, you are responsible for always succeeding and setting an example.

When talking to a girl, you feel that failure ISNT an option, and therefore, you spend more time thinking how NOT to fuck up. This, in turn, causes you to fidget, be nervous, and lose congruency.

It's the responsibility of being "The perfect leader". People look up to you, and therefore, you need to give them what they NEED; an example to follow.

Unfortunately, I cant help you on that one. I've never been a leader in anything, as I tend to be self-sufficient. I'll PM you some people who might know. =).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:37 pm 
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Road2Alpha.
Let me tell you something I believe you ought to know.

You're a wussy.
You're bloody scared... you FEAR. Now imagine I'm telling you this very SLOWLY. I'm shooting your scaredy ego because it deserves to be shot dead down to heck. You KNOW what you must do. You CAN and HAVE done it, but after you do, you CHICKEN out.
Why? Because you're scared man. You're scared shit of everything. I mean EVERYTHING. YOu're probably AFRAID someone thinks of you as "PUA wannabe can't be". Or maybe, "Oh this guy's a shithead let's beat him up", you probably never got into a fight you're scared of what you don't know. I repeat, YOU'RE SCARED OF WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW. And here what do you NOT know? You don't know what its like to be 'SUCCESFUL'. So you turn white as a chicken upon realizing you've done so much more so damn bloody easily. I'm being very frank here, the ONLY way, you can cure yourself of this is to throw away all your fear.

Blackbull and Rye Lee's given good advice, go talk to lots of people, that's overcoming fear by becoming more confident. But what you need here is different, if you believe you need psycoanalysis help then you do, it's in your head. So i'm gonna help you, I'm gonna tell you, to stop thinking about what people think of you. You gotta know, that quote "one life, one chance" represents something. ONE CHANCE buddy, ONCE chance to live LIFE as GREAT as possible. And you WON'T fail. Because you CAN'T. And once you've changed it, for what crazy reason do you have to be afraid?... That;s right, there's nothing to it. You gotta SAY things like you MEAN it cause you DO. You gotta DO things that you feel you HAVE to do because you're gonna DO it. You don't have to care as to what people say, or what they think.
If you fear criticism so much, if you fear for your self being ridden by plaguegly insults and gossips then "DO NOTHING... BE NOTHING". Its the easy way out.
Road2Alpha, If you're gonna change that mental sympton of yours listen to me. Because honestly, I am what you are. I fear success, for no apparent or logical reason I simply become overcome by anxiety the moment I grab everybody's attention. When I succesfully do something, I fear. Fear for everything. That's going to change, Its the dormant thought within my mind that comes to my attention after reading your post, I finally understand what I could not comprehend. And I CAN solve the problem, as I always have been able to, I simply have feared it.
That changes today. I live up to my name Presidente'. I fear no action as to what I believe is RIGHT. If people are gonna come at me so be it, if people are gonna speak fouly of me so be it, if I'm gonna look silly in front of everybody I'm gonna damn do it better than anyone else. I found my confidence. When I succeed, I'll go on succeeding. What better joy than to know I've done so much better than everyone else so easily.
I was going to include "hope you don't get offended or, please don't misunderstand" and even "read everything" in case somebody got me wrong. Well I didn't cause I don't give a care about no more. I've changed. I'm Presidente', Live and Well, and gonna live my life doing what I want whenever I want as long as it pleases me, not everybody else. It's me this time. It's my time.
Road2Alpha, is it your time?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Quote:
Road2Alpha.
Let me tell you something I believe you ought to know.

You're a wussy.
You're bloody scared... you FEAR. Now imagine I'm telling you this very SLOWLY. I'm shooting your scaredy ego because it deserves to be shot dead down to heck. You KNOW what you must do. You CAN and HAVE done it, but after you do, you CHICKEN out.
Why? Because you're scared man. You're scared shit of everything. I mean EVERYTHING. YOu're probably AFRAID someone thinks of you as "PUA wannabe can't be". Or maybe, "Oh this guy's a shithead let's beat him up", you probably never got into a fight you're scared of what you don't know. I repeat, YOU'RE SCARED OF WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW. And here what do you NOT know? You don't know what its like to be 'SUCCESFUL'. So you turn white as a chicken upon realizing you've done so much more so damn bloody easily. I'm being very frank here, the ONLY way, you can cure yourself of this is to throw away all your fear.

Blackbull and Rye Lee's given good advice, go talk to lots of people, that's overcoming fear by becoming more confident. But what you need here is different, if you believe you need psycoanalysis help then you do, it's in your head. So i'm gonna help you, I'm gonna tell you, to stop thinking about what people think of you. You gotta know, that quote "one life, one chance" represents something. ONE CHANCE buddy, ONCE chance to live LIFE as GREAT as possible. And you WON'T fail. Because you CAN'T. And once you've changed it, for what crazy reason do you have to be afraid?... That;s right, there's nothing to it. You gotta SAY things like you MEAN it cause you DO. You gotta DO things that you feel you HAVE to do because you're gonna DO it. You don't have to care as to what people say, or what they think.
If you fear criticism so much, if you fear for your self being ridden by plaguegly insults and gossips then "DO NOTHING... BE NOTHING". Its the easy way out.

Road2Alpha, If you're gonna change that mental sympton of yours listen to me. Because honestly, I am what you are. I fear success, for no apparent or logical reason I simply become overcome by anxiety the moment I grab everybody's attention. When I succesfully do something, I fear. Fear for everything. That's going to change, Its the dormant thought within my mind that comes to my attention after reading your post, I finally understand what I could not comprehend. And I CAN solve the problem, as I always have been able to, I simply have feared it.
That changes today. I live up to my name Presidente'. I fear no action as to what I believe is RIGHT. If people are gonna come at me so be it, if people are gonna speak fouly of me so be it, if I'm gonna look silly in front of everybody I'm gonna damn do it better than anyone else. I found my confidence. When I succeed, I'll go on succeeding. What better joy than to know I've done so much better than everyone else so easily.
I was going to include "hope you don't get offended or, please don't misunderstand" and even "read everything" in case somebody got me wrong. Well I didn't cause I don't give a care about no more. I've changed. I'm Presidente', Live and Well, and gonna live my life doing what I want whenever I want as long as it pleases me, not everybody else. It's me this time. It's my time.
Road2Alpha, is it your time?
First off, Presidente, you've got the advice nailed on the dot, but your first paragraph on berating Road2Alpha was all based on boasting. You dont know enough to say he's a pussy who's scared of everything, and neither do I and the rest of the forum. Choose your words carefully next time.

Second, Road2Alpha, Presidente's got a point. You have that fear of success, but that doesn't mean it's ok. You got to find it to overcome that limiting factor. You can do it. Work hard and keep persistent.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:06 pm 
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WOW, where to begin!?! First off let me thank everyone that has posted since my last visit, Rye Lee, BlackBull, Presidente'.

I took your advice guys, and went out yesterday with the sole purpose of talking to strangers. Let me share my experiences, and trust me, this is with a minimum of embellishment on my part:

It was raining like something awful when I got into my car at about 5:00PM. I turn the key and meet my first obstacle: the car wouldn't start. Not kidding. Owned the car for five years, and first time it's happened. I think fate is having a laugh at my expense here.

No problem. Called my folks, got my mother's car keys, took her car, which I've driven a grand total of five separate times.

I set out and wouldn't you know it, the wipers are old and don't clean windshield that well. So I'm driving in bad/atrocious visibility weather, I can't see a damn thing on the highway besides the dim red tail lights of cars ahead of me, my anxiety is rising, and I'm thinking about what would happen if I just walked up to complete strangers. Up until now, I've always known what I am about to put into words: I only socialized when there was a need to. Second obstacle hits me right about then: all of a sudden I want to take the next exit, turn around in the opposite direction, and go back home.

I fight this pusillanimous impulse, and take an exit that takes me to the nearest bookstore. I'm thinking so much about what I need to do next in the bookstore that I don't pay attention to the traffic lights, and run a red at an intersection. This wasn't a yellow-1-2-3-red, this was a red-red-red. Thank goodness the lead car with the green didn't floor it. I'm not making this up, I've never run a red before in my life, not even when I used to drive during the dead (3-4AM) hours in my college years. The other car misses t-boning me by half a second.

Somehow, I manage to make my way into the bookstore's parking lot nearby without wetting myself too much, get out, and promptly get soaked by the pouring rain. That's actually the first break I've caught all night, because after the near collision I tried to drink some bottled water and ended up spilling half of it all over myself :lol:

I walk in, look around. The people inside near the entrance take quick notice of me in the usual subtle way, without eye contact, and go back to what they were doing. I look around for someone that looks kind of approachable. Obstacle three: nobody looks approachable. I'm not kidding, if you try really really hard to find people that looks like they are completely harmless and open to conversation, you won't find them.

A few more minutes of this and I get really fed up with it, and I'm almost ready to leave. Then, I guess all that wondering and looking lost finally got the attention of one of the store employees. She comes up and opens to me, "can I help you sir?". I crack a grin when I realized the irony, and the humor behind my answer: "yes".

So I get her to show me some books, even making a few jokes and making her laugh a few times. I am not attracted to her (she was, well, pudgy), but I put some of the PUAF exercises to use nonetheless. I try to maintain direct eye contact when speaking until she breaks it, I talk with a slight hint of a smile, and when she finishes showing me the books I tell her thanks and touch her arm. The last one really made her light up, I saw almost a complete change in her body language, almost like she was breaking out of a boring Saturday routine into something new and interesting.

This gave me a lot of confidence for my next opening: this big, tall, black dude wearing a ripped and worn Cowboys Tony Dorsett jersey. I talk to him in an even voice but maintaining eye contact, and ask him where he got the jersey because I can't seem to find it anywhere. To my surprise, he speaks back in a similar voice and smiles; apparently his friend in NY bought it for him a few years back, and he even calls on his cellphone to find out the store! Obstacle four: He doesn't reach the friend, and while he is waiting on the cell, the conversation reaches a lull. We're just standing there, and it's getting a little awkward, especially since we've somehow ended up in the children's books section. I am not quite sure how to handle the situation, so I break the silence and thank him for trying. I do spot the label "Throwbacks" on the jersey, and tell him I can do a search for it online.

(Hmmm, I need to look into the flow of conversations, and how to handle stops. I think this has been a big weakness for me, in meetings or meeting girls: when there is silence, I tend to get awkward, and that quickly turns into anxious fidgeting.)

I leave the children's books section and spot two teenagers in the spirituality section. Upon closer inspection, I suspect they are goths. So I walk in an isle in front of theirs, and overhear "by accident" them talking about astrology and tarots. I ask them, in a loud, clear voice: "Do you guys really believe that stuff?" Now I think this may be construed as mockery, even though I said it with a smile, so I quickly add "Cause my friend is crazy into horoscope readings, and I'm kinda interested too." They tell me they're just looking around, and show me the book they are reading. I tell them I'm a Taurus, I walk around the book shelf and ask what does the book say about me?

Obstacle Five: Opps, I think I'm coming off a bit gay here, they seem to get razzled by this. I change the subject and ask if this section has anything on magic tricks. (I noticed one of the shelves was labeled "Magika" beforehand.) They tell me no, the books were on real magic, "like devil worshippers" one of them tells me. Ummmm err ok, so I try to joke about that, and it doesn't go too well---they're leaning away and one of them starts siddling towards another isle. I bid them farewell before they get completely creeped out. I am surprised though, that I felt no disappointment about the less than positive response I got in this conversation.

It's getting late, so I decide to make a quick stop at a Walmart. A couple of months back, this really cool elderly man there sold me a weight bench, and I've been meaning to talk to him about how much it's helped me. Up until now, I've avoided talking to him again, no sure why. I find him in the sporting goods section, and to my surprise he kind of remembers me. I let him know how good the bench has worked out for me, I've put on a lot of pounds, but now I've reached a plateau, my joints kinda hurt, what I can do to progress more. He goes all out, congratulating me on my progress, explaining to me that I need to train with intensity with high weights to exhaustion, demonstrating some of the exercises, and take me to the pharmacy section across the Walmart to get some bone and joint medicine. We shake hands and part ways. (Wow!)

I buy some beer in a liquor store on the way back, and promptly cut myself dragging the 24 pack out of the store fridge. Obstacle Six: Blood starts pooling on my thumb, not quite spraying out but I'm getting it on my pants reaching for my wallet. I try to use that as a conversation starter with the store clerk, but god-damn it hurts and I'm a little pissed off. Whereas I would have faked disinterest in the past and act like it was nothing, I tell the clerk they stack the shelves too tight and I need a paper towel. I think I kind of came off as a jerk, but I didn't care at that point...all I felt was pain and blood. (Yeah I guess I'm a wuss, I haven't felt any real physical pain for years and the sensation brings back unpleasant memories. I played contacts sports in highschool, but that was a long time ago and my pain tolerance has plummeted since then.) On the way back, I concentrate on the pain and try to associate it with any negative thoughts that pop into my head about socializing that day.

I get home, it's only drizzling now, eat a seafood dinner with my family, and realized that this was one of the better Saturdays in my life :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Well blackbull I guess that makes him a wussy he said it himself =P. No offense.

Anyway, I wouldn't call those Obstacles, rather I'd call em Road(s)2Alpha. GOOD JOB my friend. And yes BB is right but I was peeved off with myself at that point, though I'm sure not callin' you no wuss no more!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:55 pm 
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I've never been a leader in anything,
LOL, that's funny.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:00 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I've never been a leader in anything,
LOL, that's funny.
And just what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

See, it's shit like that that's driving this forum to the ground.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:27 pm 
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I've never been a leader in anything,
LOL, that's funny.
And just what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

See, it's shit like that that's driving this forum to the ground.
OMG. It's shit like THAT that's driving this forum to the GROUND? Come on dude, get serious. Are you that sensitive? Hell, have you seen how others, including myself, are flat out ATTACKED on here? Geez. Are you seriously that insecure man? Hell, I joke around with Trivial and Rye Lee and Chelsea and Starbuck all fucking day long.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:55 pm 
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You see, THAT'S the fucking problem.

YOU JOKE TOO DAMN MUCH, especially considering your post numbers. (YES, anyone who gains more than 750 posts within a one-month doens't really have much else to do. That's how it works).

...I dont take insults seriously. I take the fact that more and more ass clowns that think forums like these are for "joking" seriously.

Although I try to find the best in people, honestly, I havent seen any one insightful thing from what you posted. A majority of your posts involve you throwing in your 2 cents, you AMOGing others, and you just posting smart-ass comments that have no bit of advice or insight. (I mean, cmon dude, that post of you making fun of your own picture? Pathetic, even if it was a joke).

...Pick up is about self-improvement and changing yourself to have a better lifestyle, NOT FUCKING JOKE AROUND LIKE A JACKASS!

I'm not even going to dwell on this argument, as it is pointless and represents what is sending this forum to hell. Basically L.A Tripp, you have proven to, not only me, but the rest of the forum, that YOU are an ass clown and have nothing substantial to contribute, other than an excessive amount of posts and a lack of character and integrity.

Grow up.


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