Hey guys,

I recently cut a wing loose due to some behavior I saw over a couple of weekends that I thought was pretty low; I just wanted to run this by the forum for a sanity check to see if I'm not crazy here.

Since New Year's I've been sarging with this one wing, we'll call him Steve, a few weekends, and recently, he had a 3rd come along. I didn't see any problem with that; strength in numbers, I thought.

We get to the venue and the only floor opened to the public really is the bottom floor, which is 3/4 dancefloor, the rest is a bar area.

I run reconnaissance first and establish, that yes, there are girls down there, but only two "unattended" girls. The rest were couples or girls crowded with huge groups of dudes.

We go down there, 3rd wing hangs back then comes back and blocks out the girl I was talking to while I was in the bathroom. They had become a 2-2 group during the 2 and a half minutes I had stepped away. I tried to rejoin the conversation but the dudes paid me no mind, and the girls followed their lead.

So I'm 5th-wheeled out; this is an unworkable situation no matter what.

The next morning, on our iPhone group messaging app:

Steve said, "I invited ("Jake") into the set because I figured you'd rather have him there than just some random dude walking up."

The 3rd dude ("Jake") said, "Man, if you felt like you were being 5th wheeled or something, you should've just let us know before heading out. Then we could've re-grouped and figured a way out forward."

I said "Thanks man."

The next weekend, they fucking did it again!

This time, original 3rd dude wasn't there, but Steve and I were supposed to meet a friend of his b/c it was his friends' b-day. No sets worth approaching. B-day guy comes in and I let them chat; they'd been waiting all night for it.

I entertain myself w/ this out-of-town group that was looking for a good place that played house music. I take them across the st. to a great place I know. Doing a good deed I figured. May as well help make someone's night even the slightest bit better if mine is going shitty.

I get back to the venue and find they've both locked down girls, on a basically empty level of this nightclub. That's great for them, but where're the other girls? But good for them.

So I go over to the bar, watch Steve rejoin the girl and couple, I order a drink, and a minute or so later I try to go up and talk to them as if it were a group / conversation of 5, but the way they were doing it, was they were standing like in a formation of what would've looked like four people from the outside, but when you go up it was just two isolated couples just talking talking talking.

I couldn't get a word in edgewise. I waited politely for a lull in the conversation; an opportunity to ask one of my buds about logistics for how to continue the night; he acted as if he didn't hear me and just nodded with the girl.

At that point, I was out. I prob. won't sarge w/ that wing or his friends again.

So I'm re-shuffling my nightlife efforts now; looking for more socially literate wing's and trying to sharpen my solo-game for the time being.

My question for you guys is; your wing(s) treat you like this; what do you do?

I don't get the sense that this is the way wings are supposed to treat wings.

Am I being unreasonable?

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We need more information, namely, the heights of all parties involved

How's that asshole?

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guitar man you sound like you are from Puahate

OP you're not unreasonable. Your friends are assholes. Get new ones. It's this sipmle.

Sounds like OP is too scared to approach by himself. The truth is, you don't need wingmen.

So, you're annoyed that they locked down with one girl each?? What did you expect the guy to do when you rejoined the conversation? Did you really think he was gonna say "Actually I do really like this girl, but here, she's all yours!"

Wingmen are good for filling the gaps between approaches on less busy nights and if you're not super confident, they will make you look less creepy. I find wingmen are unnecessary on a busy night because you can just bounce from set to set with social momentum and use the girls youve opened to open another set. Wingmen mess with your logistics. Don't rely on wingmen, especially guys you don't even know.

Well there was actually a little more to it, but I didn't want to make it this huge post. 3rd dude wanted to remain on another floor the first venue/night and I began by talking to one of the girls in the couple. The thing is, I actually enjoyed talking to her and there was a lot I was picking from her personality that I liked; I thought I like this girl right away. This rarely happens in the nightlife scene with me anymore.

The problem is I had to take a piss, and I knew the second I stepped away, another dude would move in immediately and the interaction would be over. I wouldn't have the opportunity to rejoin the conversation.

I get back from a (fast as possible) trip to the bathroom I find that not only has the third dude come down to this level of the bar, but he's the one who's moved in.

On our iphone group messaging app the next morning, he was bragging to the group about the progress he made w/ this girl, etc etc.

I said I liked how he had to wait for me to go to the bathroom first before walking up to her.

Steve said. "I invited him into the set. I figured you would've rather had him be there than some random dude walking up, right?"

The third guy posted, "Man, if you feel like you're being 5th wheeled, talk to us about it before just hitting the road on your own. That'll give us all a chance to regroup", etc etc

I said "Thanks man."

So it wasn't that cut and dry.
That's exactly the point. And if a wing is not helping you look less creepy, (eg just telling you to approach sets of 3 HB 8's without joining in, and providing nothing but negative feedback) is there really a point?

I ran into this dude who was on vacation in DC. We were standing out on the smoke deck and I glanced over at these three hot German girls. He picked up on that and said, "You wanna go talk man?" - and up we went. That's how it should work IMO.

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From the way I see it, you have 2 options:

1: Sarge with only 1 wingman! No really, nothing more than just 1. (attractive) Girls rarely stand alone, but I see a lot of them in groups of 2. If you're with 3 wings among each other, that means 1 wing gets nothing out of the set. No matter what. If the girl are sets with 3 or higher, 1 wingman can isolate 1 girl while the other engages both friends. Again, if you have a 3 guy standing, you will notice that in the 2-2 set, 1 guy will stand out because he's simply more attractive than the other wingman. Chances are the other 2 women don't want to split up, since they want to wait for their friend to come back. Even though this is just a prediction, I kinda think this could happen.

2: Sarge alone. Creepy? No. Risky? Yes and no. Hard? Depends. If you have a lot of AA when you're alone, then yes, it will be hard, in the beginning.But remember that AA is just a matter of momentum. Early on, you're momentum is low, so approaching will be hard (i've noticed this). Soon as you start approaching girls at bars, 2-sets and stuff, your momentum AND confidence rises. You can open bigger sets.

Now this is where the 'Game' comes in. Engaging the group (when I approach a big group alone, I prefer an indirect opener, to not open ASD from girls), look for IOI's, which girl is looking at you all the time when you talk, doesn't break eye contact. If there are more girls giving IOI"s, pick out the one you think is most attractive. See, when you're alone, you got all the choice you want. If you have wingman, there might be friction about the same target. Back to the set; they are engaged; ISOLATE! Go stand next to your target, go stand in a way that her back is at her friends, and you can see the friends. She is still in the set but still kind off 'isolated'. Use some kino, and if you want to kiss her, take her hand and lead her somewhere else.

What I've said above is not something I read, I've done it myself and it works. I know solo is more pressure on you, but that actually gives confidence and more improvement.

Your choice, good luck!

Wallie

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Thanks man; yeah, the funny thing is, I told him EXACTLY that about rolling as 3 dudes after night one, and how we shouldn't do that again. We meet up with a buddy of his for his bday as just another reason to be out; had no clue that'd it'd go that route and that they'd walk me off 2-2 like that again.

You live and learn.

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Http://Dating-Musings.com

Dude you are to wing dependent, if you go out with dudes do your thing, you maybe a needy wing, read my post on wings and sarging:

http://www.theskillsmethod.com/sarging- ... dvantages/

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Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
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Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

I love pickup because it's a study of human behavior. If you don't think men act certain ways because of their stature, you're lying to yourself.

It sounds like when your wings get in front of a woman, they forget everything else. When it's over with, they can explain it like a politician would to you.

It also sounds like Steve doesn't value your wingmanship and he's trying to get other guys involved. If you and him were that great of a duo, he wouldn't be bringing a third or waiting on some birthday boy. There could be several reasons that is happening.

From what you are describing, you may be better off sarging solo. You are focusing on what your boys are doing and getting discouraged with it, but yet you can take an out of town group across the street and be focused on showing them a good time, which is a great attitude to have. So you seem like the type who can go in alone and build your own social circle.