Actually you're wrong. I know a few people that when they started poker they were horrible for the first year or so and now they played it so much they both have a few bit tournament wins and are winning online.
But don't build your argument around poker because this is about getting with women and alike to poker anyone can also become very good at this with alot of practice.
Also I play poker professionally and I could take anyone in the world and turn them into a winning player and the only difference about a winning player and an elite player is knowing when to make a move on someone or when someone is making and move on you and keeping your dicipline in all situation .

I'm not going to argue because I know I am right in this matter so please try understand.

2 + 2 = 7. I'm not going to argue because I know I am right in this matter so please try understand.

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I talk to wm via pm, his point is that there are people for what he has seen on the "field" that are just extremely weird, and NOT NORMAL, in the community(social outcast). they have some other issues, and that is why in his opinion the numbers game may not work. I kind of believe judging some pms from people here, and there are some guys that i see myself when i go to clubs that approach a lot and do not get results. With that being said in my experience those are guys that do not know about the community, but then again i have no opinion in the matter since the people i have seen lack knowledge they are not community people, but i get wm point.

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We aren't talking about winning players here, we are talking about elite players. Just like in PUA you can become very good with women but most men will never become epic as good as they may become at pick up. There is a difference between someone who makes 100k a year playing poker and someone who makes 7 figure income, there is a difference in their skill level. YOU ARE NOT AN ELITE PLAYER YOU ARE A WINNER HUGE DIFFERENCE. You aren't out placing in the money in the WSOP annually.

I would even doubt you have the "it" I'm talking about, I know that because you think anyone can become elite. When I was talking to a buddy, he goes "hey man we do some pick up games here and there. If you ever want to come let me know." We aren't talking about 1-2 poker here buy in was 2k min and over 40k was at the table.

We talked for a second and he is a very experience poker player. Sharp guy, owns some businesses, etc. He goes "you should come play, you will mop these guys up." I laughed and said "where am I going to get 2k?" He said "just expose yourself to these guys, you'll be a horse. You have "it"."

He went on to explain how there is a point in poker where people usually top out, he goes there are people that win at poker and there people who have "it". You have "It", I don't think in a poker hand unless you are in it. You just influence what people are going to do and you read them so well.

The "it" he's talking about is everything I've gained from this area but also what I had before. That Charisma and "alpha confidence". That "it" he was talking about are things like the fact that I won the very first poker tournament I played by body language. I placed 8th in my first 140 person tournament. These are "it" factors, that not everyone will get.

Sorry dog but if you think anyone can become an elite player I'd have to disagree. I would however agree that anyone(smart enough) can become a winning poker player but those are two different statements.

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Vic

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So now thatis out of the way? Anybody in miami down to chill and test these "number assumptions" rather than talk about it:)

I have testedl this so Call "Assumptions " that you call, all over Miami... Good luck to you dude....Keep believing they are assumption and do the so call 50k approaches....

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Dude go read the Talent Code. There is scientific proof that you are not born with talent. Some people broke the talent code without doing it on purpose and they developed more myelin in their brain, allowing electronic signals in the brain to travel much faster and precise and that's why they seem better than most people. There is no such thing as good genetics for poker, DNA doesn't know that poker exists. Read that book and you'll understand, the researcher shows on and on proofs of how talent doesn't exist and explains it in scientific terms.

NO ONES CUT FROM A DIFFERENT CLOTH. WHAT ONE MAN CAN DO, ANOTHER MAN CAN DO IT AS WELL.

YOU'RE NOT A SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE. Stop thinking like some people "just have it" like some kind of special human being.

Everyone can get unbelievable at pick-up. People just fail because the road is painfull and hard so they give up or don't push enough. Step out of this bad mentality you have..

how many people with downsyndrome are on the pro scene for poker? I doubt no downies play poker, what's up with that?

your IQ or the rate you can learn and absorb information combined with the learning style you best learn with, directly corrilate to your ability to get good at something, just because some guy who is a kinesthetic learner, with a low iq starts reading a whole bunch of books on physics for 30+ years, doesn't mean he's going to become a professor at some universicity teaching physics just because that was his goal and he stayed dedicated, sure... it's hypothetically possible, but is it likely?, more likely that an amputee with no arms learns to clap again

also this whole pickup is like poker analogy to support it not being a numbers game is gay, it has very little to do with pickup not being a numbers game, infact the whole poker analogy supports the idea that it is a numbers game,

suggesting that it isn't a numbers game, implies you can fuck any girl in the world, with no chance of failure, just because you did or said the right thing, and had the right ''game'', this is utter bullshit, attraction is subjective and girls tastes varie to a very wide degree, and alot of girls aren't even available sexually, not to you, not to me, not any guy with any kind of game besides rape game... seriously

the better you get, the more you become good at spotting the good targets, and capitalizing on chances and trusting yourself, if pickup is like poker, then the main attribute here is knowing when to fold them, and knowning when to play the right cards, doesn't mean at somepoint you will magically win every hand and never have to fold

and not every guy can get good at poker, some people are retarded or afraid to take risks to win the pot

^ EXCELLENT... The problem is most people do not try hard enough, do not give 100%, look for excuses, and quit when challenges get hard...

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^ Good pump man...

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Good guy pumpington!

Even pro poker players lose money sometimes. Sure they have good skills and can read body language from other players. BUT they never have full control of the cards, never full control of the behaviours of other players. And it's true: you have to know when to fold.

If the girls have 0 interest in you, despite your hard work and good skills, then you have to fold.

If the girl is investing interest, you gotta call, see what she's up to, and don't rush it.

If the girl is not fully interested yet, you gotta raise it a bit, and put in some more 'work'.

If the girl is 100% attracted in you, and you get the IOI's, take her home and go all in (by all in I mean sex, not drooling over her).

This would be my vision to compare it with poker.

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You have played how much poker? (1000s of hrs?) How many elite players have you played with? I haven't played with any. Elite poker is a combination of body language, math, and decision making. You have no idea the work that is required to be an elite poker player (literally 1000s of hrs).

We aren't talking about someone who makes it to the WSOP money once, we are talking about someone who wins bracelets with regularity, and while every elite poker player knows the statement "That's poker" when they get sucked out on, there is a huge difference between a winner and an elite poker player.

Elite poker has a lot to do with your personality - this is part genetic and part developed. Yes you do have some genetic influences to your personality believe it or not, what is your remark to that? The best poker players have magnetic personalities and an outstandingly high intellect (something that you are born with not developed).

It's also important to remember a lot of our work habits, those intangibles are developed through your life experiences. "It" is developed throughout your life as well as born with something extra and you either have "it" or you don't. The mindset of elite is different than good, Manning isn't as athletic or talented as some others, I'd agree with that but he has intangibles. He works hard, is very intelligent, and practices more than any other QB in the NFL that is how he is elite.

Oh Peyton Manning wasn't special he wasn't born 6'5 with an arm that can throw 70 yards. Yes he is elite because he works hard as well, elite players are natural talents that work very hard.

Lebron James isn't special he wasn't born 6'9 and with natural coordination.

Not all of us can become a Phil Helmuth, Doyle Brunson, Phil Ivey, or Stu Ungar. Be honest with yourself, poker isn't something that we can all do and get epic at. I do agree with Warpedmindless on going on the 2+2 forums and reading about a lot of those guys who topped out and can't seem to hit that next level.

My point was simple we aren't all going to be studs at poker, some of us will get very good, lots of time and effort but most of us will never ever hit that point.

I didn't say I was the special one with the "it" this was someone else. I want to ask a question - Do you know anyone else who won their first poker tournament without know how to play based merely off of reading people? I don't give a flying fuck if you don't think I'm special dude, these weren't my statements they were things I've repeated. In my own experiences at Poker I've realize them to be true. I went from a beginner at poker to a top 10% player in my area in 8 months, that isn't something that happens to everyone. When people find out how long I've been playing poker in comparison to my skill level they think I am ridiculous. I've met people who've played for 25 years who I wrecked at a poker

Dude we are given are genes and while our mind certainly helps you are a fool if you believe anyone can become elite at anything. There is so much ignorance behind your statement it is ridiculous.

We are all given different tools, tactics, etc. it's important to remember one person isn't born better than others but we are born different. Part of your life's purpose is finding your talents developing them further, we aren't all born with the same talents. Life experience should teach you that we aren't born better but different.

The Talent Code sounds very interesting and I will find it and read it now. Thank you for your recommendation. Maybe I'll come back Flair and I'll eat my crow, or PM you and eat my crow, I'm not scared to but from everything I've experienced in life, it's hard to say we are all born with the same tools that is completely incorrect from what I've experienced in any competition there will always be naturals who start out better than others. There will always be better and worse players but the elite the truly special players of any competitive sport have natural abilities with intangibles. Any talent scout knows that or they'd all be for drafting any NFL QB with an arm, intellect, and the height. After that they would just develop them into an elite QB, it's just not in all of us.

Peace and Love

Vic

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Thank you! I appreciate that!

I'd disagree poker doesn't support the numbers theory because there are winning players and losing players, just like in PUA there are high percentage pick up guys and low percentage pick up guys. It does support the fact that overall you'll win some or lose some but when you become good you'll lose less by correctly choosing the situations and knowing the right move for the situation.

There are a lot of parallels between poker and PUA (the body language and tactics are very similar). Most epic Naturals are very good poker players (or can become them) and most elite Poker players do pretty well with the women if they want. This is my personal experiences and maybe I'm off but type in poker and pick up (in the last 8 months someone put up an article on here) you'll get more articles than you realize because honestly learning to own a poker table is very similar to learning to own a social group.

I appreciate the back up pumpington! You always put out such good info I appreciate it.

Peace and Love

Vic

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Go read that book dude..there's no such thing as born with talent. You have the impression that it's "talent" because several factors made a person break the talent code when he/she was little. Of course a fat guy who's 200 pounds can't become a soccer player if he starts at the age of 20 years old to touch a soccer ball. Use common sense of course. But good soccer players are not born with soccer in their blood. When they were little, they broke the talent code either because of a good coach or because they practised in a way that increased the myelin in their brain 100 times faster than another kid who practices. And than you look at both kids and you think: Wow that kid has talent. Nope, not all. Go read that book, there's scientific studies all over the world that myelin = talent = skill. The younger you are, the easier you can create myelin in your brain and that's why if you start at a younger age a path in skill, it's much easier than if you start at 20 years old. They even took kids that are "not talented in music or other skills" and trained them with thechniques that force you to create myelin for a bit and they literally became music gods. A girl with: "no hearing ear and no talent at all" became unbelievable just by applying some principles of practice that enables you faster improvement. There's no such thing as talent. Anyone can become good. I'm not generalizing 100%.. you have to have common sense about your personality, etc. If I don't like tennis, even if I play 10 years I'm not going to become as good as someone who has a passion for it. But there's really no such thing as people are born good. Read the book..scientific proof over and over again with multiples great scientists all over the world
Yeah I agree with this..that's why it depends on what do you want to do and what you like in life of course..

Hey guys since i do not play pocker i don't know but i do sales, pick up is very similar to sells, Here is on pocker and women, i thought we all agree at the end and we decided it takes numbers but more importantly skills, anyways here is on pocker from a professional pocker player and pick up artist:

poker-and-game-what-we-can-learn-from-a ... 31862.html

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