Non-attachment and the Zen of meeting women



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:37 pm 
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I just posted this to my blog and thought it might be of interest to all of you. Your comments are welcome:
=====================

Swallows fly in the sky,
The water reflects their images.
The swallows leave no traces,
Nor does the water retain their images.

Ok, what the heck does that mean, and what’s it got to do with meeting women? Good question. To get to the answer, we need to examine non-attachment. This is a very important concept in Zen, and a very important concept if you want to improve your skills meeting women.

Many pickup artists know this intuitively and will tell you to adopt a “makes no difference to me” attitude when approaching women. If they’re interested in talking to you great, if not, that’s fine too. While this is helpful, it is not quite there. First of all, you do care, so pretending you don’t, either to the woman or to yourself, is creating an inconsistency that can mess up your “Game.” Second, this “I don’t care” medicine isn’t strong enough, we want the real deal. The real deal is non-attachment.

So what is non-attachment? It means letting go of attachments, it means living in the moment. It means not clinging to your ideas of how things should be, but being flexible enough to live in reality, see how things are in this moment, and act based on that reality. It does NOT mean apathy. It does not mean telling yourself you don’t care. You do care, and that’s fine. Be aware of that caring, be aware of that part of yourself that desires a specific outcome. But don’t let that part rule your perceptions and thoughts. Instead, acknowledge it at the same time that you allow yourself to be aware of how things truly are.

If this all sounds like some mystical mumbo jumbo, that’s because words can only point to the concept I’m trying to explain, but they can’t get you all the way there. You have to make the final leap yourself, and taste this for yourself. So let’s start with a thought experiment. Imagine you are walking along outside on a beautiful day. You’re feeling good. Suddenly, you see an angry man yelling at another man. He’s swearing up a storm. You stand off at a distance and just watch and listen. You care about what’s happening, but you don’t know these people, and you don’t have an emotional investment in this argument. Now let’s change things. The yelling person is your boss, or someone else in your life, standing a few feet away and yelling at you. This is a very different feeling. Now your body reacts. Blood pressure goes up. Your mind races to think of come backs, excuses, ways to calm this person down or get out of this situation. Perhaps you think, “what the heck is wrong with him, what an idiot.” Perhaps you get angry.

In both scenarios the same thing is happening, just one person yelling at another. But in the second situation you are far more likely to attach to your feelings. What if you could stay present in the moment, fully aware of the situation, without letting your reactions dominate your thoughts. Rather, you could observe the situation in the same way you would observe the two people at a distance, able to think and react clearly, without attaching to your own anger or defensiveness.

Let’s make this even more concrete and take a situation familiar to us all. You are approaching a woman you see sitting on a park bench, reading. She’s beautiful. You notice the book is one that you’ve read, and you already have a great opener planned in your mind. You rehearse it over and over as you approach. Suddenly she looks up, frowns at you and say, “get away from me, can’t you see I’m reading. Go bother someone else.” Wow. What are you feeling now? What are you thinking? Will this negative experience prevent you from approaching women in the future? Will it add to your approach anxiety? Only if you attach to those feelings and thoughts. You can be aware of what she said, and aware of the feelings that initially come up inside you, but still stay flexible and aware in the moment. If you stay non-attached, instead of busying your mind with negative reactions, it can come up with a response in that moment. Perhaps you say, “Yeah, I feel that way when I’m reading too, but I’ve never had the nerve to say it out loud. You must really love that book. I think I read it in about 2 days I enjoyed it so much.” There’s no guarantee you can pull out of this crash and burn, but aren’t your chances substantially improved than if you’d just walked away dejected? Even if she continues to be rude, at least when you decide it’s time to give up on her you can walk away knowing you tried your best, and learn whatever lesson there is to be learned from the experience.

This is just one example. Don’t attach to it. Apply the principle to your own life in whatever situations you find yourself in. Try it for yourself and see what happens. Non-attachment is freedom. It quiets the “monkey mind” and lets you live consistently with your true nature. It is an important step on the path of Zen, and will help you immeasurably as you approach and meet women.

Good luck.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:00 pm 
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I loved reading that post, Snubby. Great stuff! I think the best part about it is that it can be applied to life in general rather than just women. Getting rid of these feelings of attachment is great advice for Pick Up and even life in general(shown through the example you gave with the Boss yelling at the reader.) If you can keep feelings associated with certain situations you will stay clear headed, calm, and much more able to handle a situation. I wonder though, if this could be taken too far and become dangerous for some...wouldn't wanna get rid of the attachments to family members! :lol:

I'm looking forward to getting your book.

~Muse

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Last edited by Muse on Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:01 pm 
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Braaavo, I like it. :D

Don't be the guy in the movie robbing the bank, be the guy in the movie theatre watching it go down.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:30 pm 
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I wonder though, if this could be taken too far and become dangerous for some...wouldn't wanna get rid of the attachments to family members! :lol:
I just read a good post from Brad Warner's blog.
http://hardcorezen.blogspot.com/2007/11/grandma.html
His grandmother died. I think what he talks about in his post addresses how non-attachment towards a family member is a very positive thing. It doesn't mean you care any less. It doesn't mean you lose compassion. Compassion is essential in Zen. What it means is you can be aware of your very human feelings without being swallowed up by them. You can live in that moment. If you are sad, be sad. But also realize that there's more to the picture than what we usually focus on.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:36 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
I wonder though, if this could be taken too far and become dangerous for some...wouldn't wanna get rid of the attachments to family members! :lol:
I just read a good post from Brad Warner's blog.
http://hardcorezen.blogspot.com/2007/11/grandma.html
His grandmother died. I think what he talks about in his post addresses how non-attachment towards a family member is a very positive thing. It doesn't mean you care any less. It doesn't mean you lose compassion. Compassion is essential in Zen. What it means is you can be aware of your very human feelings without being swallowed up by them. You can live in that moment. If you are sad, be sad. But also realize that there's more to the picture than what we usually focus on.
Alright, very good advice. Keep in mind I know basically nothing about Zen. Sounds very interesting though, I think I'll do a little research this weekend!

~Muse

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:48 pm 
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If you're interested in learning more, a good book to pickup at the library is Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki. If your local library doesn't have it, make them get it.
Make them get my book too while you're at it. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:28 pm 
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This is an old post that came up in a google search for your book. Zen seems clearly to me to be the path away from egoic "I need to lay the hottest girl" to genuine self expression and true human connection.

I will be reading your book as soon as I get my paycheck, and this post was excellent.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Thanks for the bump and the kind words, Slip n Slide. As I re-read my original post, I realize once more how much of a journey this is. This post is about a lesson that one must learn over and over again. In our day to day life we buy in to the illusion of "self" as a permanent and unchanging thing.

As Popeye said, "I am what I am and that's all that I am." Well Popeye, it ain't that simple. We change all the time. We can learn and grow all the time. It takes effort, but the payoff is huge. Buddha said that every moment you are born, decay, and die. What does this mean? Think of a movie. You sit and watch the movie, you get immersed in it. This is like our normal day to day life. We get caught up in it. It seems so real. But wander up to the projection booth sometime. Look at the strip of film. Frame after frame after frame. Our life is this moment, and this moment, and this moment. It feels solid, permanent, real. But the reality is different.

We are not fixed beings, we can change our thinking, change our actions, change to become something that better fits our deepest ideas of what is right. You deserve to meet a woman who you can share yourself with. If you doubt that, then figure out the source of your doubt. Why should it be any other way. Why should anyone be lonely? What good does it do? What purpose does it serve.

There is suffering, there are causes of suffering, and there is a way out of suffering. Learning to let go of attachment gets you on your journey away from suffering and toward living in this moment, in this reality. Truly living.

This film only has so many frames. Don't waste them.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:06 pm 
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I understand the concept of living in the now (Eckhart Tolle writes very coherently about it) and I try to, especially in moments of distress. But it seems my distress has more momentum than being present can stop, the now gives me peace for only as long as I focus, before the stress takes over again. I need to catch the suffering earlier, before it roots so deeply.

How do you maintain presence through daily life? What reminders do you use to remain present? Do you meditate and how do you recommend incorporating that into a daily routine?

Maybe these concepts will be covered in your book, I don't know.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:26 pm 
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It is covered, but the short answer is, yes, daily meditation makes a HUGE difference. It's like resetting the dial back to zero.

I also find that throughout the day if I find myself getting caught up in "monkey mind", negative self talk, stress, whatever, it's very helpful to take a deep breath and notice what I'm sensing in that moment. Try it right now. What do you hear? What do you smell? What can you touch/feel? What do you see? Notice what the senses are bringing you in this moment. What is this? There's no need to consciously answer these questions, you don't need to say to yourself, "well, I see the window, and there's a building outside it." You don't need to figure out or understand anything. Just be in that moment, sensing what you sense, letting that connection ground you and free you from your churning mind.

I've used this exact technique many times, including when dealing with extremely emotional and stressful situations. Sometimes I catch myself thinking, "haha, I'll bet your stupid little technique won't help with this situation." And of course, it does.

It can be hard to let go of patterns of behavior that have taken us years to learn. It can be hard to let go of attachment to strong emotions, even negative emotions that logically we know are not helping us. But there is a way.

I hope this helps. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:03 pm 
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I just posted this to my blog and thought it might be of interest to all of you. Your comments are welcome:
=====================

Swallows fly in the sky,
The water reflects their images.
The swallows leave no traces,
Nor does the water retain their images.

Ok, what the heck does that mean, and what’s it got to do with meeting women? Good question. To get to the answer, we need to examine non-attachment. This is a very important concept in Zen, and a very important concept if you want to improve your skills meeting women.

Many pickup artists know this intuitively and will tell you to adopt a “makes no difference to me” attitude when approaching women. If they’re interested in talking to you great, if not, that’s fine too. While this is helpful, it is not quite there. First of all, you do care, so pretending you don’t, either to the woman or to yourself, is creating an inconsistency that can mess up your “Game.” Second, this “I don’t care” medicine isn’t strong enough, we want the real deal. The real deal is non-attachment.

So what is non-attachment? It means letting go of attachments, it means living in the moment. It means not clinging to your ideas of how things should be, but being flexible enough to live in reality, see how things are in this moment, and act based on that reality. It does NOT mean apathy. It does not mean telling yourself you don’t care. You do care, and that’s fine. Be aware of that caring, be aware of that part of yourself that desires a specific outcome. But don’t let that part rule your perceptions and thoughts. Instead, acknowledge it at the same time that you allow yourself to be aware of how things truly are.

If this all sounds like some mystical mumbo jumbo, that’s because words can only point to the concept I’m trying to explain, but they can’t get you all the way there. You have to make the final leap yourself, and taste this for yourself. So let’s start with a thought experiment. Imagine you are walking along outside on a beautiful day. You’re feeling good. Suddenly, you see an angry man yelling at another man. He’s swearing up a storm. You stand off at a distance and just watch and listen. You care about what’s happening, but you don’t know these people, and you don’t have an emotional investment in this argument. Now let’s change things. The yelling person is your boss, or someone else in your life, standing a few feet away and yelling at you. This is a very different feeling. Now your body reacts. Blood pressure goes up. Your mind races to think of come backs, excuses, ways to calm this person down or get out of this situation. Perhaps you think, “what the heck is wrong with him, what an idiot.” Perhaps you get angry.

In both scenarios the same thing is happening, just one person yelling at another. But in the second situation you are far more likely to attach to your feelings. What if you could stay present in the moment, fully aware of the situation, without letting your reactions dominate your thoughts. Rather, you could observe the situation in the same way you would observe the two people at a distance, able to think and react clearly, without attaching to your own anger or defensiveness.

Let’s make this even more concrete and take a situation familiar to us all. You are approaching a woman you see sitting on a park bench, reading. She’s beautiful. You notice the book is one that you’ve read, and you already have a great opener planned in your mind. You rehearse it over and over as you approach. Suddenly she looks up, frowns at you and say, “get away from me, can’t you see I’m reading. Go bother someone else.” Wow. What are you feeling now? What are you thinking? Will this negative experience prevent you from approaching women in the future? Will it add to your approach anxiety? Only if you attach to those feelings and thoughts. You can be aware of what she said, and aware of the feelings that initially come up inside you, but still stay flexible and aware in the moment. If you stay non-attached, instead of busying your mind with negative reactions, it can come up with a response in that moment. Perhaps you say, “Yeah, I feel that way when I’m reading too, but I’ve never had the nerve to say it out loud. You must really love that book. I think I read it in about 2 days I enjoyed it so much.” There’s no guarantee you can pull out of this crash and burn, but aren’t your chances substantially improved than if you’d just walked away dejected? Even if she continues to be rude, at least when you decide it’s time to give up on her you can walk away knowing you tried your best, and learn whatever lesson there is to be learned from the experience.

This is just one example. Don’t attach to it. Apply the principle to your own life in whatever situations you find yourself in. Try it for yourself and see what happens. Non-attachment is freedom. It quiets the “monkey mind” and lets you live consistently with your true nature. It is an important step on the path of Zen, and will help you immeasurably as you approach and meet women.

Good luck.

EXCELLENT! I have a question about this, can a newbie do this, or does this come with a level of successes... Are there any books on the subject? is the power of now the same as zen? thanks in advance...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Haha, any books on the subject?

Why yes! --> http://zenpua.com/

Power of Now borrows heavily from Zen. Go to the source. http://zenpua.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Haha, any books on the subject?

Why yes! --> http://zenpua.com/

Power of Now borrows heavily from Zen. Go to the source. http://zenpua.com/
Definitely on my reading list... :D

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Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction


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