analysis/insight requested for LJBF situation: next steps?



Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 45 guests
Post new topic Reply to topic   Board index » Get Into The Game: New Forum Members Start Here » General Questions




Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:08 am 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:22 am
Posts: 5
UPDATED: 8/31
For the tl;dr short version, please just skim these points:

Goal:
To get target to meet me for a Day 2, dodging the LJBF zone, and gaining solid ground on making her my GF.

History/Context:
  • 1. Girl I've known for a long time (she used to date someone on the fringe of my social circle) recently starts showing interest in me.
  • 2. After some flirting at gatherings of mutual friends, I ask her to have lunch w/ me.
  • 3. Three-hr lunch, kino, compliance, fair number of IOIs, but she has a very flirty personality in general (mischievous).
  • 4. I don't solidly close, but when I mention my interest in taking a roadtrip this Labor Day wkend, she seems interested, despite other tentative plans she has. Also seems interested in a couple other activities w/ me (sports, cooking, etc).
  • 5. Two days later, she emails me and a group of her friends, saying we should go on this trip for the wkend. (thus, she canceled her other plans)
  • 6. I play it cool and blow her off, calling her to say I have other plans (trying to be scarce here, but I also know I'll have trouble with isolating/kino in this group--they know me very well (unlike her), and will find this new shit I'm trying to pull utterly hilarious/call me on it). She takes it in stride, and is noncommittal about joining up with me after her trip, for a different event I'm going to.
Next Steps:
What would you do? Keep playing it cool, until she makes a move? Wait a week, then ask her out for one of those other activities we talked about?

Detailed post (the old one) follows here:
Quote:
Hi all,

First off: lots of respect for the community here--I've learned so much already over the past few months I've lurked around this, and other PUA sites, and I can tell that there are some incredibly useful skillsets to be learned from reading and practicing some of the advice given here. Apologies in advance for the wall of text, and thanks for any insight you may be able to give. I didn't have a really specific question, just wanted some general advice on what you guys might do for next steps here (to escalate, make her my GF, avoid LJBF zone etc.).

This is definitely TMI, but I don't really know where to start, so I'm giving a vast overview of how this entire thing has unfolded. Any critiques or pointers for places I'm messing up would be incredibly helpful too.

Me: I'm really new to the game and PUA in general: it's always been something I've wanted to try out sometime, but it isn't until recently that I 'snapped' and have been on something of a self-improvement binge (literally, this has consumed my life). FYI, I'm extremely inexperienced with women, but I'm not too bad socially (a little awkward at times, but I can also be charismatic when I try). I've been reading up on PUA and doing exercises to become more social, but I'm still very much a beginner.

LJBF situation:
1. Girl I've known for a long time (but on the 'fringe' of my social circle) broke up with her longtime BF about half a yr ago. Here are a few key details:
-Have always felt some chemistry w/ her in our interactions in the past, but because I knew her BF as well, I never really gave it much thought. Also she's very attractive, and has a flirty personality. (probably HB8?)
-Her BF works across the border for long periods of time, so she built up a social circle of guys at home who are basically like guard dogs: a bunch of single/with GF/married guys she has LJBF'd who fawn over her because they are still interested, commenting on how hot she is, etc. Things are probably heightened now that she's single.

2. Saw her for the first time in a long while about 2 months ago at a mutual friend's party: felt like I received some IOIs (looking at me and giggling, talking to me a lot, sitting near me). I froze up and acted really awkward in response, and she seemed a bit disappointed by this and ended up totally ignoring me for the rest of the night.

3. Week later, saw her again at mutual friend's house: totally ignored me. This frustration at not being able to do anything or...knowing how to handle a girl's interest was really the catalyst for this all-consuming PUA and self-improvement binge I've been on for over a month now. I say catalyst for change, because although she has provided the spark, this is something I want to master for my life--not just for her. I would like to learn as much as I can from this encounter, but by no means do I rest all my hopes on it (aka oneitis).

4. Randomly met her on the subway home from work (long ride). We hit it off great but at this point I still didn't know much about how to escalate/kino/DHV etc. so in retrospect I just see this as a lot of comfort building not going anywhere (other than LJBF zone!). She asks me to join her and some of her other friends in getting a bite to eat, so I join her and we take one car. This perhaps gets her into trouble later as we leave the bar, when her friends seem shocked (jealous??) that she gave me a ride. We head back to her place (where we left my car) and she seems hurried as we pull into the driveway. She curtly bids me a good night, and goes in, avoiding eye-contact. I thank her for the ride/say it was fun.

5. Several weeks pass. I meet her again through a mutual get-together with friends, this time at a festival w/ a big crowd. I have internalized a bit of the game at this point, so I am better about using negs, not 'taking her shit', being a lot more playful and funny, and also trying to escalate using some light kino. Still, she gets bored with the festival and leaves early citing other plans. I hear from others in the group that she has been going on random dates lately, but hasn't met anyone in particular that interests her.

6. The next day, I see a text message from her telling me that she has a free ticket to a show we had talked about previously--since she's not going to go, I was welcome to come over and take hers. I already had other plans that day, but somehow felt like...I needed to take action here, so I gave her a call. Here's how the day unfolded: (god...I realize how AFC-ridiculous so much of this is as I write it, but again, I'm such a fucking newbie)

-Call her, playful convo, get her laughing. Mention I have other plans. Tell her I need a female opinion on some fashion shit as I'm buying clothes, and that she should tag along as I head to the mall. She balks, give excuses about not knowing guy fashion, etc (yes I know this is all crap).
-I respond something like 'whatever hater, you must not know how to have a good time etc.' Then segue into 'well I'm going to get something to eat before I head to the mall--you hungry?' She agrees to meet me at a nearby restaurant for lunch. She says something strange here that I didn't really know how to read (so much data out there, I get confused about how to interpret things lately). She tells me it will take her about an hr to meet me there--I tell her to just roll her ass out of bed and throw on some sweatpants. She replies 'ya thats the idea--you better not be expecting me to dressed up like it's some big deal!'

-She arrives dressed in sexy shorts and a t-shirt (whatever). We order food, and I'm nervous/awkward for the first 10 min or so, then I step it up and start focusing on game: throwing negs, making wild assumptions instead of 'interviewing' her, doing some kino, seeing compliance from her on a few tests, then starting to really uncover shit about her I never even knew (and opening up a bit on my own side)
--possible IOIs?: laughing a lot/smiling, asking me what I look for in a girlfriend, opening up to tell me about her past, escalating my sexual topics by describing her makeout sessions with other girls, jokingly suggesting that I should get in on a threesome the next time said makeout sessions occur, showing interest in joining an ultimate frisbee league with me, when I mentioned it (yes hella random)

-We part ways because its getting late ('lunch' ended up being almost 3 hrs) but I am a little dazed and don't really 'close' anything, not that I even really know what that would entail at this point.

7. Two days later, current time. I haven't slept yet--my mind is racing as I pour through my notes to try to figure out what the next steps are.

For reference, here is my current plan:
Plan A) Meet her tomorrow (or call?) and tell her I am going to a concert with some people this weekend (Sunday--the more casual day obv., it's also labor day weekend fyi). Tell her she should come hang out because I don't wanna be the 3rd wheel for my buddy and his GF.
-High chance of rejection because this seems really forward, but also shes not really into concerts, and I know she has other plans lined up for the weekend that she was 'considering'...in my dreams, this would mean that she was waiting for me to come up with more interesting plans so she could tag along.

OR go with perhaps the 'safer' plan B....

Plan B) Totally ignore her/don't call for a week. After labor day, meet up during a weeknight for happy hr or something. Bring up the frisbee league, and how we should start going. Over the course of the next month-1.5 months, ruthlessly fine-tune my game while seeing her on a more regular basis. Esp. needing work: my DHV and social proofing (my social circle sucks ass, I need to work on this a lot).
-Once I solidly feel like she's into me (I would view this as....she goes out of her way to call me to do something 1-on-1, which has never happened), then I would pretty much call it the home stretch and be able to figure things out from there.

Plan C) ????

How would you move forward? I'm afraid of:
1. LJBF
2. Hey, you'd be perfect for one of my friends (I got the briefest hint of this)
3. I hate you AFC, die


Conclusion: I know that theorycrafting can only get you so far, and I need to go out there and use the skills. Yes, I get it--but I'm new, and I didn't expect this shit to fall into my lap so suddenly. So here I am at 2:30am on a work night, wondering how the fuck I will see this thing through. Take pity on my wretched AFC-ness and please advise. I am a more than willing pupil, and I will take your words to heart.


Last edited by tallwall123 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:18 am, edited 6 times in total.

Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:00 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Zealot

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 405
Location: australia
I hate you AFC, die??? hahahaha ur a funny guy. that is good!
well basically from what i have read i would say that yea you are most definately getting ioi's. this is where it starts to get hard, because the closer you move to a relationship (or making the move for a relationship) the harder it gets to keep your composure. you will end up fb stalking her and thinking about her 24/7 so dont think you are alone in being that way and it makes you an afc because we all go through it.

basically you need to keep playing it cool. dont do anything that is going to look outwardly needy or anything so if you do call to make plans with her dont make it sound like you are relying on her, make it sound more like it will be a shitload of fun and she should go for her own sake and not for yours.

just keep going the way you are, your doing a good job by the sounds of it and when you feel like it is right escalate to a kiss (try and make it a "special" moment chicks eat that shit up. after the kiss you will find it much easier to hang out with her and you will get much more compliance from her and from there if all goes well it should just develop into a relationship.

_________________
just because my name is safety doesn't mean i like condoms


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:08 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:37 am
Posts: 213
Website: http://www.themanupblog.com
Hey, dude! That is a novel, I'm gonna write a proper reply here when I get back home in the evening. Until then, you can check out the link in my signature; it'll take you to my blog where I posted an article about getting out of The Friend Zone. I think it'd be a good place to start for someone at your level.

_________________
To download the 53-page Manual of Confidence for FREE, visit my blog
Why Men Suck at Sex (fun read) - LINK


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:16 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Addict
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:05 pm
Posts: 235
When I see LJBF in the title I just KNOW it's going to be a novel. That's because guys always seem to over-think their way into the "friend-zone". Getting with a girl doesn't require a lot of thinking, some of the dumbest guys I know are great with chicks. It's in large part because they don't sit there and think a million thoughts before they make a move, they just see an opportunity go for it. Does it always work out? No, but they don't waste hours or days thinking about what to do or what went wrong, they just move forward.

So my advice is stop thinking so much and start taking your shot with a few girls (not just this one). The "friend-zone" is just sitting there waiting for guys who hesitate.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:54 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:37 am
Posts: 213
Website: http://www.themanupblog.com
OK, a few things.

1. You're too invested in this girl, which is never a good thing. Get more women into your life.
2. There's a thing me & my friends call "the point of no return" - when a girl is clearly trying to show you that she's interested by making moves, and you freeze up and lose the opportunity. Reversing that is very hard. From your description, that's what happened around point 3.
3. You're processing a lot of information right now, and trying to implement all your new knowledge in your interactions with this girl. The problem is, this behavior is probably inconsistent with the you she knows. Ideally, you would forget about her and focus on other women until your skills are fully internalised.
4. What you should do.. It sounds like you and this girl get on well but you screwed up and landed in the Friend Zone. Assuming the girl is decent and values you somewhat, here's what I'd do in the situation (a little similar to your plan B).

This method might not work for you, but I've used it multiple times and so have my buddies. Positive outcomes outnumber the negative.

Disappear for a little while and wait for her to initiate contact a couple of times. Blow her off gently for a week or more and keep meetings and conversations/texting to a minimum.

Then, plan some cool little date. Doesn't have to be a dinner date; a picturesque drive or something like that works. Call her up, tell her you have something really important to tell her and that she needs to be ready and looking hot at X:XX PM.

At X:XX PM, roll up to her place with a rose (can be a paper rose if you're cheap, sprinkle some cologne on it beforehand), kino her (I hug and spin around, but you could just take her hand and lean in.. up to you) and tell her you like her and that this is officially a date.

Word of warning - if you do this, you really have to commit to it, you can't half-ass it. You have to go in with the mentality of rocking her socks off and being dominant. I actually have a whole upcoming post written on this, as a follow-up to the "simple" way out of the friend zone. If you're interested, I can upload it to my blog later this week or send you the word doc on a preview basis ;).

_________________
To download the 53-page Manual of Confidence for FREE, visit my blog
Why Men Suck at Sex (fun read) - LINK


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:27 am 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:22 am
Posts: 5
Thanks for the awesome insight guys--I'm trying to keep in mind things like...trying to keep my time 'scarce', which is a new concept for me.

While I was deciding what to do here, she actually emailed me and a group of her friends, taking me up on my roadtrip idea. Considering whether to turn her down and invite her along for a different event (1-on-1) rather than with a group of friends (who know me and will call me out for acting different).

Regardless, thanks a ton for your help.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:33 am 
Offline
MPUA Forum Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:37 am
Posts: 213
Website: http://www.themanupblog.com
Quote:
Thanks for the awesome insight guys--I'm trying to keep in mind things like...trying to keep my time 'scarce', which is a new concept for me.

While I was deciding what to do here, she actually emailed me and a group of her friends, taking me up on my roadtrip idea. Considering whether to turn her down and invite her along for a different event (1-on-1) rather than with a group of friends (who know me and will call me out for acting different).

Regardless, thanks a ton for your help.
It sounds to me like you're going to disregard most of what we said. I hope that's not the case. Best of luck to you, man!

_________________
To download the 53-page Manual of Confidence for FREE, visit my blog
Why Men Suck at Sex (fun read) - LINK


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:51 pm 
Offline
MPUA Forum Zealot

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:05 pm
Posts: 340
It really doesn't matter where you go with her specifically and it doesn't matter if her friends are along or your's or if you are 1 on 1. Just be dominant with her (you tell her the times, places, activities etc. don't ask her what she wants to do and then defer to her preferences)

And then when you are together, maintain good eye contact, flirt with her, tease her, don't let her or anyone else push you around or take control and above all else start touching her and escalate and don't be afraid to be sexual.

If she is talking to you about making out with women and encouraging you to do a 3some she is DTF. If didn't have some level of attraction to you waterboarding and electrical shocks to her gums wouldn't get her to talk about that kind of stuff.

Go for the jugular here. be flirty and dominant and sexual and above all ESCALATE. Don't puss out and turn into her boybitch.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:57 am 
Offline
New to MPUA Forum

Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:22 am
Posts: 5
Yeah, that's definitely what I'm trying to avoid. I ended up playing it cool like you guys said and blew her off for the roadtrip.

Called her to let her know I had other plans already, but she seemed to take it in stride and think it was no big deal. I mentioned I was going to another event the next day and that she was welcome to join, but she kinda balked...not sure if that seemed too needy.

GeorgePH: I do want to take her out on a date, but esp. after today I'm not sure she would go for it. Maybe you guys can weigh in on this:

(so far):
I called to meet up for lunch > She meets me, sets up a roadtrip and invites me along > I blow it off, citing other plans > ??

At this point, do I wanna just keep playing it cool, for... days? Weeks? I'm afraid interest will fade, but also I don't want to seem needy. During the lunch, we talked about meeting up for some other activities, or cooking--wondering if I should bring these up/ask her out again in a week, or whether it really needs to come from her at this point.

Thanks again, all.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:36 am 
Offline
MPUA Forum Addict
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:37 am
Posts: 213
Website: http://www.themanupblog.com
My advice is still the same if you feel that she values you at least somewhat as a friend or has some attraction to you. Maybe someone could weigh in on my earlier post.

_________________
To download the 53-page Manual of Confidence for FREE, visit my blog
Why Men Suck at Sex (fun read) - LINK


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:37 am 
Offline
PUA Forum Leader
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:38 pm
Posts: 1430
Grab your fucking balls.

First off, don't you think she's ever so slightly hinting "YOU ARE FRIENDZONED" when she invites her friends on this trip? When she's not being sexual w you?

And you keep saying you'll do "this" and you'll do "that" so she can make a move on you.

YOU must make the move and YOU must quit being a pussy believing that you are being 'cool' by blowing her off and laying low because you're not - you're being really ignorant. I mean look at the records . . . You haven't even tried making any moves on her yet and you have been out w her several times.

It's too late. You are friendzoned for sure.

Either make a kamikaze move and show sexual interest to see if she likes you back - or accept that you're friends and nothing will ever happen between the two of you in the near future.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:55 am 
Offline
PUA Forum Leader
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 1614
How do I say it..

SHE DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT.

There. I couldn't be any more clear than that.

This girl has repeatedly shown signs that she is not as interested in you, as you are in her. And while, you had to take some solid steps to telegraph your attraction to her clearly, you did those half-baked road trip ideas with her, which you then cancelled to "show her that I am scarce", I mean what is all that?

You have no right to be taking the higher ground, if you are in the heavier side of the attraction balance.

I don't see anything happening for you here. I'm sorry.

_________________
" You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one. "


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:01 am 
Offline
MPUA Forum Zealot

Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 405
Location: australia
here2play is right.

but if you dont make a move soon she is going to think you are a pussy. girls love guys who take control. unless the girl is an absolute nymph it is likely that she will never make "the move".
if you try to be too scarce she will think you are uninterested and move on. she has shown interest. do something about it already, girls dont hang around waiting for guys after they have missed their shot. take it. now.
or you will be friendzoned. simple as that.

be willing to lose her or you will never win her

_________________
just because my name is safety doesn't mean i like condoms


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Can we be honest?

We want your email address. Let me send you the best seduction techniques ever devised... because they are really good.
close-link