Ok so this is pretty self evident parson A posts the flawed opener person B fixes it using details about what the flaw is, why its a flaw, & fixes the flaw. Then posts one of his own.



I guess Ill start

"does this shirt make me look gay because....."

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You know what your problem is?You're putting the pussy on a pedistal.

"...I've been getting hit on by guys lately."

I think it sounds to similar to the stereotypical chick saying, "Does this dress make me look fat?" and you just tune it out soon as you hear the intro. I would say:

"So. *pause to ge their attention* I've been getting hit on by guys a lot tonight. What do you think? Is it the shirt? Too much? "


New opener: "I like your dress...."

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Now if the chick is hot you must make it a backhanded compliment - a neg. Otherwise the girl will mistake you for another lame AFC. I would go like this:

"I like your dress. It's very popular, I have already seen 3 other girls wearing it"

Flawed opener:

"You look damn sexy with your hair like that...."

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- - > "It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"

hollywoodinpa on The Transition to Natural Game:

the-transition-to-natural-game-vt15880.html

"You look damn sexy with your hair like that...."

"But i think it would look better up/down"

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"Women are Just as Bad As Men - They're Just Better At Hidding it! So Let's Exploit that!"

Well this is a silly exercise. It looks like you guys are playing "fill in the blanks" more than "fix my really bad opener." You're not even building roots off of your "fixed" openers. They're empty ice-breakers.

Monkey's Fixed Gay Opener:

Icebreaker: Hey guys, do I come off _gay_ to you? (Y/N/M/W)
Root: Yeah, cuz there's this guy that's been following me around the club all night, and I can't figure out if he wants to kick my ass or come on to me. I mean, he just stares at me and walks around and tries to stand near me and shit. Has that ever happened to you guys? (Y/N/M/W)

Monkey's Fixed Shirt Opener:
Icebreaker: OMG I love your shirt! I must touch it!
Root: I've been shopping around all over the city looking for something like this. It's my little sister's birthday next week, and I wanted to find something for her that was "in style," but not "over the top," y'know? And I've already seen a couple of girls wearing shirts like this, so it's, like, totally "in." By the way, do I come off _gay_ to you?

Monkey's Fixed Hair Opener:
Icebreaker: So I'm looking at doing something different with my hair (funnier because I don't have any), and I'm thinking maybe I should fauxhawk it. What'd'ya think?
Root: Kuz I want to do something a little out-of-the-box, and guys with fauxhawks always seem so... _cool_. We should go ask one. Let's find a guy with a fauxhawk and ask him if his hair has special powers. (turn it into a game. I don't care. This is a stupid opener. Don't use it).

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-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

I just assume that people are gonna transition into their own style of game from here. It is just an opener after all. I personally usually just walk up to people and start a conversation and people like to talk, so they want to hear what you have to say. I figure the point of a lot of these type of threads, are just for practicing having talking that way and thinking that way, so that when you're in that situation, you act and talk that way, not that you're actually going to go use these (although now and then I've seen some great replies in the shit test thread).

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

I'm just saying that openers are a two-part affair. You can't have an icebreaker without a root. Even if the root is crap (and most of them are) you have to have a reason for asking the question, or you're going to find that your set is uninterested in continuing the conversation.

If we practice "fixing" incomplete openers and leaving them incomplete, we're practicing how to fail in a set. And practice makes permanent.

I like threads like these because they force people to think on their feet. I love coming up with new roots for old openers, or fixing M&As/icebreakers, because it gives me a chance to work my improv muscles. But I really think it's counter-productive to practice something that will get you tossed out on your ear.

Example One
Monkey: Does this shirt make me look gay?
Her: No, the fact that you look gay makes you look gay.
Monkey: Because I've been getting hit on by guys lately.
Her: That's because you look gay.
Monkey: Oh. Well that sucks.

Example Two
Monkey: Hey guys, do I come off _gay_ to you?
Her: Yep.
Root: Reason I'm asking (and I can only stay for a minute, I've got to get back to my friends) is there's a guy that's been following me around the club all night. And at first, I thought he wanted to kick my ass or something, but he doesn't really _say_ anything. So I think he might want me. That ever happen to you?
Her: Oh yeah! All the time! There was this one guy...

It's not a question of game style. If you're going to be using openers at all, you'd might as well use openers that work.

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-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

I feel you Monkey and I agree to a point. I think that style does come into play here though. Sometimes I will do like you say and have a root that I go into in order to build on, but sometimes that is going to end up trapping you on topic and then when that topic dies, you have no where to move to. So other times, I won't use any root, I'll just say, "Would say this shirt looks gay to you?" and then have it so that if she answers "yes" I can say, "Well that's ok, because I constantly hear girls wishing that straight guys have the same style as gay guys." and then turn that into a topic thread. Or, if she says "no", I'll say, "See, my friend over there *hand on shoulder, pull close and turn to look at friend as I point him out* says its too over the top. I seriously think I need to ditch the guy next time I hit the mall, he's a fashion victim don't you think? You seem to have some half decent taste, maybe I'll take you next time I go shopping and you can be my style advisor."

I think the only problem with an opener is if you leave no way to turn it around, even if she doesn't reply the way you intended. That's why I don't think you need to keep going with the entire rest of your thread, its just an "opener". Where you go from there is up to you. Your opener may only be a sentence, or it may be 5, but there is no need to say they have to be concluded and backed up by a solid root in order to be successful. I'm sure there are at least 100 ways to go from the "Do you think this shirt looks gay?" opener, and maybe the same from "Does this shirt make me look gay?", but personally I think the first one has a better success rate and more positive possibilities, with less risk of being immediately shut down. That's all this is about.

We could say, "Ok, so now you've established a root, but how will you transition into the next topic?" and tell guys they need to know that too, or it isn't a successful opener, because its the truth, but we're here about an opener, not where you take it.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

You're talking about roots like they ARE transitions, and they're not. They're the reason you're asking, they're the explanation for why you're talking to the set at all. Without that, you're creepy.

RyeLee: Well that's ok, because I constantly hear girls wishing that straight guys have the same style as gay guys.

This is a root. It's kind of a bad root, but it's a root.

RyeLee:See, my friend over there *hand on shoulder, pull close and turn to look at friend as I point him out* says its too over the top. I seriously think I need to ditch the guy next time I hit the mall, he's a fashion victim don't you think? You seem to have some half decent taste, maybe I'll take you next time I go shopping and you can be my style advisor.

Also a root.

Transitioning is moving to another topic of conversation and has nothing to do with openers. Rethreading is a transition that uses another opener, but that's getting down to the fiddley bits and really neither here nor there.

Style was adamant about this (Who Lies More opener), and he's right. The who lies more opener sucked because it was unrooted. There was no reason to ask (well, you can root any icebreaker, but no one was doing so at the time), so sets thought the PUA was taking a survey.

They don't need to answer my opener the way I want them to (I use third-party stories, not first-person, so I never really want a set to say one way or the other). I just need to reassure them that I have a reason for asking them some random question.

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Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud

i didnt mean end the quote i ment fix it "does this shirt make me look gay because....." is the opener and it will vary from person to person what I want from this topic is the fixing of openers (pretty much what rye lee did). Thouhg I do see Monkeys point I had forgotten completely about the roots lol

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You know what your problem is?You're putting the pussy on a pedistal.

This is also a root. Its so short that it might not seem like much of one, but it is one. Now you may be saying, "Well, there's not enough to it to be a reason for talking to someone, so you're that creepy guy", but why do we need a huge reason to talk to someone? I find most people love talking, just to hear themselves, as well as others, talk. You observed something and wanted to comment on it, so its valid, not creepy. Why is this not a good opener fix?

Now the starting opener was broken, because its gonna put up her shields, but the suggested way fixed it, so that proves the value of this thread. I don't think it needs any more debate.

_________________
"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

*shrug*
Whatever, bro. I'm only trying to help. In my experience, a root that weak gets you blown out of sets. Why? The 90/10 rule, mostly.

But you're right. It doesn't need any more debate. I'll go do something more constructive with my time. Like knit.

_________________
Repent now and save 50% on your next divine judgment.
-Monkey's Little Brother, Spud