Before I write anything, I know its obvious that I am an AFC (really frustrated). So my bad if this seems lame.

Anyway, I'll make this as short as possible:

-After a few months of passing by this neighbor (HB7) and flirting, I invite her to my apartment during a lil party I hosted (she lives, literally across the way). She enjoys it and plans to come by the next weekend.

-Day 2, I get pretty drunk and end up going to her apartment to "check if her fridge had the same water dispenser that mine has." We end up making out on her bed. a feeling eachother up a lil.

-Day 3-7, we hang out after classes or dinner for an hour or two. Build comfort.

-Day 8-9, her roommate leaves for the weekend. She invites me over, we make out on her bed, but she wants to "take it slow" with sex/bj/hj's. We fool around a little bit and here is where my dumbass AFC self messes up: I pull a little too much and ask her to get me off...she tells me to j/o and I oblige.

Day 10-12: we hang out briefly, I try not to make out much or text her until she texts me. This works and I can see her interest going back up.

Day 13: I take her on a date up a mountain, and watch the sunset...no real making out, just embracing...then proceed back to my place for seduction. Things get hot and heavy, but she withholds from giving me ANY pleasure (she will tease and play with teh genitals, but thats it). I get fucking frustrated and she tells me to j/o again. I do so on her stomach, lol. We go to sleep, and I wake up at 5am and feel uncomfortable as hell, and I basically insinuate that its time for her to go by rustling around so much.

Day 14: I surprise her and take her to her favorite restaurant (italian place). Not too expensive, but definitely a nice place. I take her home, and then leave her to take care of some other stuff (fraternity business) for 2 hours, and then return at like 12:40am

Anyway, I get her back to me place to watch the rest of aladdin with my roommate and his gf. She tells me that she wants to go in my bedroom, but I tell her to chill until the movie is over. It ends and we finally go into my room.

We make out, take off clothes etc...things are going the same way, but I decide to be bold and eat her out. I do it for like a solid 15 minutes. then kiss her a lil bit and wait to see what she does...at this point, SHE JUST WANTS TO CUDDLE! I ask her, in so many words, to return the favor, and she refuses and tells me to relax.

So I push her away and lay on my back to try and go to sleep/avoid blue balls again and tell her : "you said you wanna sleep, so lets just sleep" (best freeze out I can muster at that point). She senses my distance and starts kissing my neck and then going down. She teases the fuck out of me by kissing me down low, she even brushes her lips on my cack. Then she tells me: "there you happy?" and then goes back to cuddle position.

I wait for like 10 min. to see if shes really serious about not returning the favor...and then proceed to j/o next to her (pathetic, I know).

Guys, I know I've a been a bitch. I mean, she seems interested, but I know I gave WAAAAY too much away. She tells me she wants to have sex/give me head, etc. but she doesn't want to do it "right now." I fucking spend time/creativity/money trying to get her to enjoy herself because I like her, but when it comes to returning any sort of favor, she fucking falls short. She doesn't want to fulfill any sexual needs. I just wanna end this shit, but I feel like I invested too much effort in this to do so.

I mean, I've done quite a few freeze outs on her...either by making phone calls, or even walking all the way out of the apartment to let my roommate through the gate, but it just doesn't work. All she wants to do is fucking cuddle. And I do do that, but it gets annoying because thats ALL she wants to do.

I figure my best bet is stop trying so hard, so she second guesses my interest level in her. But I don't really know how to do this without looking like a prick. Any advice?

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Since you're not actually in a relationship, I'm moving this thread to Newbie Questions. Please post in the appropriate sections.

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You should have slept with her on day 2. You don't mention any reason in your post to not escalate all the way to sex immediately, except for the possible insinuation that you don't believe it's possible. If that's the case, I'll clear it up really quickly: it's very possible, and probably what she wanted.

If you had done that, we'd be in a very different situation right now.

At the present, you are getting nothing you want and she is getting everything she wants. You're obviously frustrated with the situation, so stop doing it.

I'm tempted to tell you to move on, but you probably won't listen to that. Instead, try this: next time you spend time together and things seem to be heating up, you tell her that you're "not sleeping with her tonight," then proceed from there. If you assume you are in control, she'll give let you be in control.

But for the sake of everything holy, stop jacking off while a girl is laying in bed next to you. If a woman told me to "take care of it myself," I'd probably tell her, "Well, I can handle that without you," and leave (or ask her to leave, depending on whose house we were at).

The point is, it's time to man up and get a little assertive. That's not being a prick, it's establishing a boundary: you require reciprocity. Nothing wrong with that.

Your boy,
870

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"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

http://tinyurl.com/c6lbje<-Member Journal (PMZ Only)

edit: I just spent 20 minutes typing my situation and stuff more clearly. I know exactly what I need to do if I want to make this work. Tell her to put out or get out (in so many words) next time we get intimate. And actually act on my words instead of being a sucker. If it doesn't work, cool. If it works, great.

As for some clarifications. Day 2, I did try to escalate to sex but I ran into a lot of LMR and was too drunk to think like a PUA and freeze her out. So I did the best thing I could at the time and bid her good night (barely remember that night).

You're advice on the j/o thing is SPOT ON. I knew it was a bad idea, but I got too caught up in her game (she always told me that she went too fast with her previous bf from like 2 years ago...so I tried to "respect" her wishes). She also told me she wanted to watch me do it, so I thought "why not?" Bad idea.

Thanks for the advice. I've been talking to my roommate about this sh1t, he has a gf but he is a COMPLETE afc (godbless him, since he is one of the coolest people I know). I tried to abandon some pua concepts with this chica, and it obviously isn't working. Just gotta bring it back in full effect now...

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I don't get why you don't treat her the same way as she is treating you ? She turns you on sexually by doing all these sexual things with you but than she suddenly stops. If I were you, next time with her I would stop to set 'having sex with her' as a goal. I would just tease her sexually and arouse her in the same way she does to you. And than suddenly I would stop this and tell her: "It's getting late. I have to get up early tomorrow." and then just go home. Just let her suffer too. She wants it as bad as you but the difference is that you give her the pleasure she wants but she isn't returning you the favour. Any normal woman would return you the favour but I guess this one is extremely selfish. You need to show her that if she isn't prepared to please you, you are not gonna please her either.

Good luck with the situation. I hope you get it sorted out.

what the fuck is with you jacking off next to her?

goddamn sex isn't that important.



okay, first rule is girls are more sensual. The SPAM is a BIG deal to them when it comes to sex. They have to FEEL like sex.

Second rule is stop caring about the end result of these interactions. Have some fun. In all likelihood she can sense that you're just really wanting sex. So she uses it to help control you. Which is working fairly well. If sex was less important to you, you''d probably have sexed this chick already.



Anyhow, I recommend 870's No Sex gambit. Try it.

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Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

The only reason I didn't recommend the gambit to him is because this girl seems like she is enjoying her power over him too much to play. Driver, if you think she will, give it a shot and let us know the results

Your boy,
870

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"Do not blame, call out, alpha male, superman, or water sprinkle any hoes. And what will be, will be." -Hobbit

http://tinyurl.com/c6lbje<-Member Journal (PMZ Only)

That was actually pretty gangster!

This, however, was not...
That was pathetic. I don't want you to beat yourself up over it but it didn't help your case. You chose a path - "Let's go to sleep" - then you deviated using your tears as lube, so to speak. Jerking off on a girl who is giving you LMR is fine. I do it. But you don't want to be all meek and pouty like you were in this particular situation.

This is the definition of reactionary behavior. Contrary to popular opinion, reactionary behavior is not making a big deal out of something. Reactionary behavior is ALLOWING shit to happen and then making a big deal out of it. It's why people shoot up high schools. They let things build over a couple of years rather than stick up for themselves... then one day they snap.

You allowed this behavior to continue. You were an enabler. But standing up for yourself is not being reactive. Never be afraid to call things out for what they are. As long as you call it out as soon as it happens you're a MAN.

Stop texting her so much. Act aloof and distant until she wants to hang out. When you guys are hanging out, have fun. Be in the moment. The second she pulls this shit again, say, "Fuck this, I'm going home!" or she's over at your place, "You should probably just go home."

When she asks WHY you say, "Because you're selfish. I like you! I love the time we spend together! But selfish people are kind of a turn off for me! You are all for me making you feel good, and taking you out and showing you a good time and going down on you... but all you do is take... and I'm officially over it. If you want to hang out with me, you need to start contributing."

Start putting on your clothes.

She should come around.

If she doesn't, fuck her you are better off without her.



S

Have a look at this clip. Its from Mystery and he speaks about your problem. I hope you can learn something from it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqInJZ6u ... re=related

technically you kind of did....

just only the first part of it, which happens to be the main part anyway. The whole role-reversal aspect.

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Every Saint has a Past, Every Sinner has a Future

Sup guys. Just letting you know what ended up happening.

I guess she was soo reluctant to do it because of a personal belief. She's not at all a slut. I guess the last time she had sex was over 2 years ago with her ex (and first), and she only kissed one dude since her ex (so shes not the type to go out every weekend to fill a void). Anyway, I guess it was a promise to herself to never go that far until 3 months, no matter how much she liked any guy (me).

Well, I guess I was closing in on 2 weeks when I posted this. She actually gave me a BJ while I sat on her washer and her roomate was 10ft away trying to get sleep...this happened probably within 5 days of this post, LOL. She kept me pretty happy with giving me head (and even attempting some other kinky shit, lol). But she didn't want to have sex.

I ended up waiting 2 months to f-close (she essentially met me halfway, since I'm good to wait a month). But i feel like it was worth it, because she was being good to me and was genuinely interested in me (and even my family...I took her to my b-day party). The night before my birthday (after meeting both my parents) I pretty much laid it out on the floor that, if she still finds that she cannot be fully intimate with me, even after introducing her to my family, then it probably wouldn't work to well. We then proceeded to have sex On a side note, she explained bitterly to me in a small banter, a couple weeks later, that she "gave it up" because she knew I would leave her if she didn't...guess it shows that i had some pull in the relationship then, too.

Anyway, looking back, this pretty much demonstrated that she knew how to control her emotions and keep a level head during the most emotional of times. It also showed that she wanted to be very sure she can commit herself to me before she had sex with me. I suppose it also showed that she wanted to have control over me before she got too attached too me to do so (which I suppose I can understand).

Anyway, since then, the tables have definitely turned. For example, we've gotten in a pretty big argument while being away from her. I was ready to end it, but she called back and asked me not too, told me she cared, and made her jump through a couple hoops and got her to apologize for everything she pissed me off for.

I mean, as immature as this sounds, I guess it proves to me, at this time, that I have an equal amount or more of influence on the relationship.

I guess, now that I am pretty comfortable with everything, it should be smooth sailing with this chick a for at least a few more months (don't wanna have too much of an expectation, as I could see myself deviating if something all around better came along...I'd expect her to do the same as well).

I know its the internet, where its not too big of a deal, but thanks for all your help. I appreciate the smack to the back of my head I received from you guys.

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