I was replying to a thread and things started to get long, so I've decided to post it seperately here. I want to share with you my opinions and thoughts on direct game. For the record, this is from my own personal experience... no unfounded theories, no repeating crap I read somewhere.

The bottom line in the never-ending battle between direct and indirect game is this, and it's been said time and time again by anyone who knows what they're on about: Neither is better. They are equal. Direct game, when delivered properly, works just as well as indirect game. No more, no less. She either likes you or she doesn't, and in the case of the former, the approach really doesn't matter. If she likes you, the results will be the same - being more up front just cuts out the small talk (which is unnecessary, unproductive and phony). If she isn't into you, you wasted pretty much zero time finding that out as opposed to going under the radar, reaching a hook point and trying to isolate beforehand. This is why I prefer it to indirect; not because it's "more effective" - rather, it is more efficient.

And yeah, it doesn't work with groups. Social conditioning, maintaining the good girl image and all that. It is best on lone wolves, however in a club environment it's very easy to breeze past a set and tell the girl you like the look of to come talk to you away from everyone. As before, if she likes you, she will. If not, did you waste any time? Nope. There has been more than one occasion that I've done this, the girl didn't fancy me and told her friends, only for one of them to accidentally-on-purpose cross paths with me later that night instead.


So, to recap, direct game (when properly executed) is awesome because:

- You know where you stand right away and can either get to know her or move along (both positive outcomes)
- You don't waste your small talk and clever anecdotes on women who aren't genuinely interested in you
- Due to the above two points, rejection is insignificant. You accept it.
- In the case that she is interested in you, she is turned on a lot more by your bold and up front nature.


Oh yeah, and it's ridiculously simple aswell. The only things to keep in mind for proper execution of direct game are as follows:

- Strong eye contact.
- No flattery*, no ego boosting, no putting her on a pedestal.
- Standing by what you say and staying on track. This means no backing down or becoming apolagetic when they criticise your behaviour. They expect you to do this and are turned off by it.
- 100% honesty, all the time, no exceptions.
* Actually, excessive flattery can be just as effective; look at shock & awe game to see how. So, you either flatter excessively or you don't do it at all - no inbetweens.

The reason why many guys argue against direct game, or outright refuse to believe it works is, they are deathly afraid of rejection and/or criticism and it's difficult for them to comprehend the fact that both these things are positive, inevitable and necessary on the road to success. They fear exhibiting any kind of behaviour which makes them look bad - the way most of us have been raised by society, it's hard to be your own person and stay self-assured. You know you're not defined by the opinions of those around you, but you can't help but try to please everyone anyway.

If you're a typical man with typical insecurities, concerned about how others perceive you, then of course the thought of people saying or thinking anything negative about you isn't very nice and you'd like to avoid that as much as possible. And that is why we have indirect game. Indirect approaches ensure that any rejection is polite and accommodating to your ego. As for criticism, well, it simply doesn't happen because it's designed to both diffuse bitch shields and remove the possibility of encountering harsh shit tests. How comfortable. Not only is it comfortable for you, but also for the women. It's polite and doesn't infringe upon any of their comfort zones. The difference between the typical nice guy and the PUA using indirect game is that the PUA will actually pull the trigger in the first interaction. That's how I see it anyway. So, direct and indirect are both as good as each other... it's merely subjective. If you don't give a shit and are self-assured, go direct. If you wanna play it safe, indirect is more your bag. You'll get the same results with the same frequency either way - as long as you're actually approaching, that is!

And, as always, the thread is now open to your questions, comments, criticisms and so on. I look forward to getting your opinions and hopefully now everyone can agree that there is no "better" method. I know I didn't cover the positive aspects of indirect game in nearly as much detail but that's simply because it's not my area.

nice post, succinctly covered like always. i have a question, Do you state your intention verbally at any point, and if so, how do you do it without flattery?

Hi soup! And yes, stating your intentions is the whole point of direct game. It all boils down to why we approach them in the first place - we want something, so we make it clear instead of beating around the bush. I do it pretty early on so I don't have to keep making small talk. You don't have to flatter a woman or pay her a compliment to suggest going home together. It's kinda hard to explain without examples, so here's a simple one:

(after my friend making a drunken fool of himself)
You: Heh, that guy's fucking crazy.
Girl: Yeah I know!
You: I love the guy though, he's fuckin' cool. So, how're you doing?
Girl: Um, I'm good!
You: Sweet, so what do they call you?
Girl: *****
You: Nice, I'm Mike. So listen... oh my god you have bright orange nails... and they don't match anything you're wearing! (this was unnecessary but I noticed them and had to say something, lol)
Girl: Oh I know but I love them, blah blah...
You: Uh huh... so yeah I didn't come to talk to you about your nails and my crazy drunk friends, what are you doing later?
Girl: I dunno
You: I mean like later on, after the countdown and all that stuff
Girl: Haha I dunno, get something to eat and go home I guess
You: Tell you what, I have a better idea... how about, you and me, go home... together. (worth noting I was smiling when I said this, not in a "just kidding" way though... kind of a knowing smile)

I will not leave the rest up to your imagination because on this occasion she was actually kinda seeing some guy and she said he might be coming down later (which he did) - had she been single, well, you get the idea. I'm not gonna give tons of examples cos it'd defeat the purpose of this stuff if you just copied stuff I've said, cos let's face it, you're perfectly capable of saying what's on your mind. Just don't verbalise anything sexual unless she invites you to; asking "what are we gonna do when we get there?" for example.

I agree with your post in general, but I would like to add something:
You say its either she likes you or not and by direct you don't waste your time. BUT as far as I read the whole PUA thing is about how to get woman to like you. So all the indirect thing is the time when not too good looking guy is trying to charm a girl with his pua skills. If he went direct he would just be blown of because girl just don't like him.

I love both.. direct and indirect game. But I think indirect game is more effective because if a girl doesn't like you right away (is not attracted to you) you can get her to like you (DHV, negs etc.). But direct game is easier. No canned material, pretending (at the beginning) etc.
I agree with pretty much everything solomon said, but silverito is also right.

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It also shows your confidence a lot easier than indirect game does. And in my opinion direct game is more alpha due to its boldness and what have you.

You can get a girl to like you using direct game. The only real difference between direct and indirect game is that direct is upfront and to the point. You can still do all of the other things like DHV, negs, push/pull etc with direct game. You just have to adjust them to for direct game.
You can use canned material with direct game. But if you do you better have solid game to pull it off.

What you say is certainly true. But for one key thing. Girls will size you up and make a decision to how much they are into you within 15 seconds, usually less, from the instant you approach the girl even before you said anything to her. PUAing the target can certainly change her mind about you. But if you haven't notice there is a lot of importance made on inner game, and looks. Because first impressions are huge when it comes to picking up girls.

You cannot make a girl who does not like you, like you. Fact. It's very to misinterpret the stuff you've read and believe that this is true, but it's just not so.

Yeah, you can use push/pull and send mixed messages, and all those little things to make her more interested and get her chasing you - but that only works if the girl has a certain degree of interest in you in the first place. We use these things to increase and maintain interest which is already there, not to create it. You can't just create attraction willy nilly and make a woman who just plain isn't into you change her mind. If you're going to try and argue with that, you're kidding yourself... unless you've actually slept with every single woman you ever approached, that is - have you done that? Of course not, and saying you're "not at that level yet" isn't gonna get you out of this.

Stop deluding yourselves, guys... I've said this before, her reaction to you and the things you do are outside of your control. Whether or not she feels any attraction is out of your control. All you can do is lay your cards on the table and deal with the consequences... if she likes you, great. Use what you've learned to build upon that and make the most of it. If not, it's her loss. If you fool yourself into believing you can attract any woman, your ego will not be able to take it when things don't go your way. Remember when Mystery went fucking crazy over that one girl? It's cos his ego became so attached to receiving positive reeponses and getting what he wanted so often. Not every woman can be attracted to you, you can't control their responses and reactions, and my acceptance of this fact is what makes my inner game so strong.

I'm aiming for direct for daygame, due to less time etc.
When time is not an issue it's best to let the girl know how cool you are before making then decide if they like you. Otherwise they are only judging on looks (negating PUA). The idea that someone knows if they'll like you before they meet you is mistaken. By that logic I would never blow out a hottie when I find she is brain dead.

Peace

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if you speak like Norn Iron so it is, many women will find you attractive anyway.

as usual, a killer post.

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Vidi. Vici. Veni.

I have met a ton of people who I have hated to begin with and ended up being very attracted to.
To say unless someone bedded every woman they open they cannot prove attraction can be created is unsound.
It's true you cannot fully control your being-for-others. No-one has argued that you can, so you set yourself against a straw man.
However, you can have a significant influence in most instances.

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Aye mate it's mad bant!
When you meet a woman in a club or in the street and she doesn't have some kind of attraction towards you straight away there is very little, if anything, that you can do in that instant to change that. In your case, you've grown to know these people over time. That just doesn't happen when you approach a woman outside of your social circle.

Both styles are not equal. Each are both better than the other. And both worse than the other. Making them equal. Think about that.
What I mean by that is that indirect and direct are completely context dependant. So in the right situation each is better.
I was discussing this with solomon earlier via SPAM and i was saying that if i approached a girl by a bar, flocked by guys, i would go indirect, because thats just me. I tend to play it safe.
Solomon on the other hand said that he would go direct and shake all the guys hands and than just come out with - hey is any of you the boyfriend? Coz i really need to borrow her over here for a second. Now solomon is more a happy go lucky type so that suits him and its fine.
Personally i think that the hitch scene is classic for this. Hate to compare hitch to real gaming - but its sooooooooo smooth man. The way he mistakes her for a waitress. What a neg, role reversal, and fucking isolater dude.
What Im saying is it all depends on you, how comfortable you are with it. In truth, neither is better or worse, its just how you feel about it.

Oh yeah, Indirect is better willy nillys.

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V1V

Recently in a bar my AFC buddies were ogling girls, I was busy with a PUA I just met. One girl came over & insulted me. I had no attraction to her before or after the insult but wasn't gonna take it. Me: That was nasty & way off the mark. I'm gay Her: OMG sorry, I thought your friends were being rude. Blah blah. Turned out to be a cool girl who I kissed. She created attraction in me in 5 mins.

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