_________________
Back, starting over as of 2012.

train your natural game using structured game, when need be. That way you will become a trained natural and won't have to worry about routines as much

I am not sure what it would come under, but natural game that understands the PU princables will ALWAYS win.

Anyone can learn the lines and act, few can really own the part. Once you incorperate the basic PU idea's (DHV,Push pull etc etc) and actually understand why they work, and you can use them in a natural way you will be very good.

I don't know, from what Im being lately, the principles of PUA are really becoming second-nature, its flowing really naturally..

like 1 milisecond after Im gonna say a neg or DHV I get a flash in my head and I associate what I was already doing with the game, its pretty much in my personality now....

My opinion is 'natural' is non existent, its all learnt, all structured, the natural just has a higher fluidity because its more in tune with his system

It doesn't matter. Game is game Weather your using the annihilation method, the mystery method or simply a natural, it doesn't matter. different types work on different girls. no one system is going to work 100% of the time. naturals probably have an advantage, because its less of a social manipulation but rather a way of life from the beginning. But pua's are at the disadvantage of working from social manipulation, and then making it a way of life much later on. I think if any natural spent half as much time obsessing over his game as we do he'd be just as, if not more successful as even the best. but naturals don't obsess over their game, they don't need to (if a natural has to obsesses he is clearly not a natural). but it doesn't matter even in the slightest.

+1

Natural game is just a perfectioned and personallly incorporated kind of structured game

Whatever gets you laid.

_________________
afc-challenge-to-the-masters-social-anx ... 10108.html

Everything that has ever been taught about PUA is based upon natural game. Nobody really invented PU, they just observed, tested, and organized it. There have been PUA since the advent of humanity. Modern PUAs just study the most effective social skills used by “Naturals”, analyze why and how their game works, then take the best parts of it. PUAs basically backwards engineer natural game, bottle it and sell it to others. This is why we have the advantage. Naturals don’t know why their game works, they just know that it does. We understand the theory behind PU, which makes us much more versatile. I have known a lot of Naturals, who could only game a particular type or level of women because their game was limited and they couldn’t adapt like we do.

The hobbit speaks the truth!.. too bad hes just a hobbit.. no one listens to them these days!

Personally I think that a good balance is worth its time! I've always thought routines are a thing to smooth interactions, its really more about you as a person.. if she’s good she can recognise your game and be like.. "hey you have game" and you can hit it by saying "guilty as charged".. That in itself makes your value go right up.. I don't really get this whole big natural movement tho.. I don't know what it's all about...

I've always liked structure, having a few preset things to get going, a neg here and there, maybe a cool story or too, but its not about that, like I've always said.. its about the confidence you bring to the interaction and the connection you can switch with her... Once you get that inner stuff down you'll notice women naturally go up to you, start you... your whole vibe becomes more inviting and you pull to the next level..

A great example is hitch actually.. when i first saw the movie and the scene where he walked up to all those guys, I thought yeah cool he’s using a routine.. but its not that, he’s just letting her know he’s around and she’s the only one in his eyes.. and he’s all that

That’s cool that’s like a master operating.. I suppose i chose the way I wanted to go in this community and the game I develop..

Whatever gets you laid is a good way of putting it.. but.. if not being yourself gets you laid then how good is that? I think you yourself have to find the percentage and boundary between natural game and structured game.. and use it!

I know a few naturals... they have "game".. and a process they do things by... and they are aware of it!.

___________________________________________



<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zGDS2YxzgWw&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zGDS2YxzgWw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

_________________
Back, starting over as of 2012.

well said- the PU community exists for a few reasons, and one of the primary ones is because people who arn't natural gamers, and trying to become them. And they become gamers by emulating and learning what those who have natural game do.

There wouldn't be many true natural people here- if any. There is no reason for them to be here.

I thought it was based on trial and error?

First of all, NATURALS, aren't all that natural at all. I've seen LOTS of "naturals". Most of them have a specific portion of the game isolated and perfected. For instance: This one guy I work with has the natural ability to neg without knowing he is negging and pulls off the push-pull like you and I breathe. But the problem is, he sucks at opening sets. Most of his success comes from piggy backing off of my openings. Honestly I have a bad opinion of his skill because he is leaching off of my hard work. I asked him to let me wing and and put him in the lead one night. He did not do well at all. His openings were lame, i.e. : What's up?, How's it goin'?, What's your name?, Hey Girl! Then I simply use what I have learned over the last four months and opened a 3 set. And then it was like he had control the whole time. That's when I decided no mater what kind of "natural" you are, there are always areas that need structured game. No one is perfect, everyone is human and prone to mistakes. Take that principle and apply it to PUA. No one can be perfect. Everyone is prone to mistakes and rejections, it's about combining what you have learned with what your natural strengths are, regardless of how "natural" you are.

Another example (I will keep this short.):

I know another guy who is relatively talented at starting conversations with anyone. Perfect strangers, girls, guys, hermaphrodites...it doesn't matter. He loves to talk. Problem number one: He babbles. Goes on and on. Goes off on tangents. Cant Even make it to A2 or 3 because his opening is great, but is persistence is none. His game needs work in the areas of building attraction and moving into Comfort. So I COMPLETELY AGREE with Kalel's assessment of us PUA's and even AFC's in training being reverse engineers of the art of seduction because we take the good from the naturals, but we also learn from the bad in their lack of skill. Every natural has a black spot that needs to be evaluated just as much as the rest of their skills or lack thereof.

I'm Dukesdown and I approve this message.

_________________
Only those who dare to fail greatly, can ever achieve greatly.

Anyone with Google Talk look up MrBravado

I think Duke hit the nail on the head. I am like his friend, I do pretty well once into a situation but couldn't open a can of soup with a jackhammer...brutal approach anxiety.

My best wing buddy moved to another city for school and work and I am fucked. My friends have always said that I do well but without support I have realized how one dimensional my game is.

Also.....anyone that reads this; Are there localized forums for city/area?

I have never been a huge fan of Structured game. Im terrible at remembering things. The way ive learned pick up is read this shit over and over again until my mind eventually remembers the basics of PUAing. Ive locked in without really noticing it almost all the time. Its basically becoming a passive pick up artist in my head at all times. Not having to go through my memory banks to remember some little neg is the best way to game. Just following the basics Ive had success enough to show that this is working. Im going to say this again. Find you're best style of gaming. Some take more to "freestyling" their negs and intro lines and such, some like stricted scripted game. I hate scripted just because you can get really fucked if it doesnt go exactly your way.

_________________
I just wanna fuck bad bitches, for all the nights I never had bitches.