The typical social programmed person will beleive in fate. That there is some1 out there for everyone and its not actually down to you to make things happen, they just will.

As PUA's, we have the ability to change many womens lives for the better (or worse).

So, as a PUA, do you still beleive in fate? or are you compleatly in control of your life?

Madals

Fate is one of those things that people have their own views on its exact meaning, I mean the actual definition is , word wise not opinion wise, 'the inevitable' or 'impending doom' of others . Now if the inevitable definition is taken , then we are all living an entirely pre-destined path, and either separate choices take us to the same destination or no matter what free will we think we have we do not, with the same argument that deals with what happens when and immovable object is hit by an unstoppable force applying.

This results in many reasons for believing in fate as that way a certain element of the fear of the unknown is removed, if things are going to happen no matter what we do, then why worry about something you can't change. It helps to deal with issues in life by following a path of 'everything happens for a reason. It also allows people to prevent themself from thinking 'what if had done that instead of this'.

Conversely the belief of fate is rejected for many reasons, its natural to feel uncomfortable knowing that you have no control over your life, that the one thing you should be able control (yourself) is all part of some master plan that is unrevealed to you. It is often hard to accept that something was meant to happen.

Now these factors hinge on the definition of fate and of course the belief in it. Then there are issues with paradox's it can create; If you believe in fate then you have realized that no matter what you do things will just happen as they were meant to, which will affect your journey through life, while if you didn't believe in fate your attitude would be different and as such your journey.

With regards to PUA and your original point Madals, the belief of fate and relationships can be a way to subside the fear that you won't end up with the right person. If you feel you are useless with the opposite sex then it serves as a comforter, 'It doesn't matter how much that goes wrong now, in the end I will end up with the right person' . Again emphasis on can, im not insinuating that all people that believe in fate is only because they are unable to attract or that you have a huge fear that you will live your life with someone you weren't meant to.

My personal belief with fate is more of a 'predetermination' not an 'inevitability' that it only reaches up until the choices we make, so we may have predetermined paths but which one we take is still remaining in our power.

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Note to self: Reffering to Chief by something other than his name has the knock on effect of strolling into the chat room and being asked; 'Crumpetberry are you a single hippie looking for a man'

I don't think fate is something you can look forward and see or expect; that would make it way less complex than it really is. Fate is something that you get to witness when you look back on your life and realise that you wouldn't be where you are now, without one or two seemingly small events, often seeming negative at the time they occured, yet in the end changing the entire path of your life and generally doing so in a good manner.

For instance, I WOULD NOT BE HERE NOW, were I not to have dropped out of school 4 years ago and gotten into the porn industry, ended up completely broke. That catalysed every event in my life after, by making me move to Calgary to live with my aunt and uncle and turn my life around, causing me to get a job I never would have otherwise as a telecommunication technician and growing closer to my uncle than anyone else in my life. My uncle became the most influential person in my life to date, even more so when he died a year and a half after I moved out there from unexplainable events, which really sucked, but I doubt I'd be here now without that having happened either. If I hadn't moved to Calgary, I never would have lived with one specific roommate that lent me The Game and caused me to realise my passion for psychology, so I would be going to school for mechanical engineering instead and would be on an entirely different path, on the other side of the country, without the knowledge I now possess and the happiness I now enjoy.

I think that's fate. At the time, I resisted every one of those things, I fought against it all, I thought most of those things were negative turns in my life, but here I am 4 years later, 100,000,000x happier than I was because of what I've learned and where life has lead me. I know exactly what I want out of life and how to get it.

Perhaps it's all just coincidental, but I've recently found faith in a higher power (for which I have no denomination, I just believe in something) and a large part of why is because of my realisation of those events. I used to curse any god that may exist for my bad luck and hate it for the horrible things thrown my way, like killing my uncle, who was one of the finest men I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. Now, I realise there's a lot of good that can emerge out of bad things and it's not until later on that you witness it most of the time, so what else could it be other than fate? I wouldn't call it good luck, cause good luck wouldn't include people you love dying, or being screwed over by your roommates and best friend since grade 5, that's just ludicrous. Good luck would end up getting the good stuff, without the bad. I think fate is when you get both the good and the bad, but still end up where you're intended to be.

Fate doesn't negate the power of free will though. It merely guides it and works along side it. You get certain choices at times in your life and when those choices come along, you can make the wrong ones and then you just picked a worse fate, but if you pick the right ones, it's like switching the railroad tracks and you're now on the better path.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

There is an internal locus of control (ILC) and external locus of control (ELC). If you have a high ILC you are more likely to believe your actions control outcomes in life. If you have a high ELC then you are more likely to belive fate, luck or chance influences your opportunities in life. Whether you have a high ILC or ELC depends on your upbringing and experiences. Those who tend to be more religious/spiritual have a natural tendency to have a high ELC. It is not that either is good nor bad. But those with a high ILC are typically more self-motivated because they do not rely on outside factors to take affect.

One defining moment or powerful event can swing you from a high ILC to ELC and vise versa. For many who felt powerless before PUA, it might be a wake-up call for them to take charge of their lives..and thus, a strong ILC would be common amongst PUAs.

However, and since TheAce responded to this thread, I will use him for example (not picking on you Ace ). TheAce introduced the dice theory to me and this is a perfect example of how you can be both, proactive and still accept fate. First you set some parameters (e.g. if you roll a 1-4 you do not approach, roll a 5 you approach normally, roll a 6 you approach with a crazy opener). Then when you see a girl (or guy) you roll the die and do what it says. This method is to reduce AA. If you roll a 1-4 (in this case, you may believe that you just were not meant to approach her). If you roll a 5 or 6 and get shut down, you were meant to get shut down for reason because fate made you roll a 5 or 6. If you roll a 5 or 6 and get a close, then that confirms the notion that fate wanted you to approach. By letting an outside force control your approaches, you are accepting fate as the sole determinite of your love life. However, once you do approach, you contol where it goes. In other words, fate gives you the opportunity, but you have to seize it. That is the dice theory and see TheAce if you have any other questions...I am soley a messenger of it, he knows more about it.

the answers are pretty profound. i was thinking i dont because if i think that fate controls everything then my head will explode.
what if i was offered an apple, would i take it or leave it. fate says something but i have the choice to pick which one. now if its fate that i pick that one then i dont want to know about it.
i like to think that the choices i make in my life affect my life. if there was no choice in life then there is no life, you are living a script

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Its not failure, its a learning challenge.

Do you mean ELC? I could be wrong, but I figure people with a religious upbringing would believe that god has a large effect on their life and control over where it leads them...

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Yes I thought the same thing. I know Christianity states that everything and anything you do is apart of God's Will, but somehow we maintain freedom of choice. Doesn't make sense, right? But that's religion for you.

Rye Lee, thanks for giving us some insight on your life. I truly do like to hear transformations of peoples lives, because it make me more motivated to achieve my goals.

Yes Rye...thanks for catching my mistake....people who are religious have a higher ELC. When you type it that many times you just lose track of what you are typing. But thanks for catching that so others aren't confused! But I will fix it in the original post incase people don't read the correction down here.

Fate and luck are for the weak...
Real men create their lives as they live them

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I wrote a PUA eBook that i want to be FREE so people can enjoy this without spending money... you can download free without registration at

http://seductionsniper.110mb.com

And please tell me what you think of it

So then getting lucky cards doesn't happen in poker? Never get a lucky spin of the roulette wheel, or a lucky toss of the dice on a board game? Luck is a very real thing in certain contexts.

Fate is something that some people believe in and others done and depending on your beliefs, you will have a different concept of what it governs in your life. I don't believe fate controls my life, I make all my choices for myself, yet upon looking back upon my life, I do see certain things that I see as being influenced by fate. I could go on at great length about the difference and whatnot, but it's a lot like religion, you either believe, or you don't; there're not a whole lot of being able to comprehend exactly when you don't believe, otherwise you would believe. Doesn't give you the right to go around shitting on people's religious beliefs.

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

We live in a deterministic world. Everything can be calculated and measured and everything obeys the laws of physics in the macroscopic realm (lets not get into sub-atomic and uncertainty principles as they seem to not effect anything outside the atom). Simple single-cellular organsims can have their motions calculated exactly when responding to their environment, and humans are no different. Everything that happens comes from a cause, and is conversely a cause for something else to happen.

All thought and consciousness is, is electrical signals flying down neurons and axon bulbs, exiting different areas of one's brain and body. If someone were to know the position and velocity of every atomic particle in the universe, they could predict exactly everything that will happen in any distant future (up until the point where the universe collapses into a singularity again and all physical laws fail). With that being said, fate exists in the sense that everyone is moving towards an eventuality, and any action one takes is predetermined based on one's physiology, history, and environment.

By the time I finished your first paragraph, I was intending to say that, but then you went and said it, lol. Of course, that's merely a hypothesis, as no one can actually do that, so it can't be truly proven...

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"The 'Brick Walls' are there to allow you to prove how badly you want something!" ~ Randy Pausch

~ Rye

Determinism can not be outright proven true. But among educated people it is accepted as fact. It is just as factual as gravity or evolution, both of which are theories that are not concrete but have so much damn evidence pointing at them they are accepted as fact. Just because something can not be proven doesn't mean it isn't true. My philosophy professors don't even discuss whether or not determinism is true, they simply accept it as fact and we debate/write about the consequences.

Regardless of my own beliefs here's a thought I'd like to share with you all:

Fate with a capital F (platonic) would exist in such a way that what people believed would be irrelevant. It's pawns would assume it is a function of thier beliefs when in reality it simply existed anyhow.

CPT

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"Wait, so let me get this straight. One really big meal a day then we go to sleep, no paper towels but a little bit of bread because we're not Nazis and as many popsicles as we want."

Of course there is fate.

Perhaps you are one day fated to meet the woman of your dreams.

What and how you do when you meet her is entirely up to you.

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