Hello everyone! Am I the only girl here? I hope not I saw the programme featuring Adam L on tv and was curious about all this stuff. I like listening to guys talking among themselves. So I'm here being nosey and reading more about the techniques.

I think one of my ex bfs was using lots of the techniques you're talking about on here. I recognised LOADS of them as things he did. And I always had a strange feeling that he was calculating everything he said, and every response. The whole thing played out it in a very interesting way because although it did work in making me effectively "addicted" to him for a while, i suspect some of the reactions he got from me were not what he had expected at all.

It's fascinating to see all the techniques you're describing from a female point of view. Many of them seem to me to be psychological techniques to encourage addictive or dependent behaviour from another person. So I'm curious... why is this seen as a good thing? I'm on the search for a guy with his own passions and interests in life, who would like to share his life with me. Not a peron with a shattered or weak sense of self who I can make dependent on me. A person who is unquestioningly addicted to you is surely rather boring... no spark, no battle of wits, no shared journeys, no learning from each other... isn't manipulating someone into that kind of dependency just an exercise in narcisism that ultimately leads no where? Don't you guys want the REAL thing out of life? Real feelings, and true emotional adventure? A lot of this stuff smacks of control freak mentality. Don't you ever want to meet a fire cracker of a woman and get swept away with mutual passion?

Also, after many women have experienced an "alpha male" they are gonna decide they won't be going down that road again, just like I did hehe. Isn't the pool of suseptible women gonna grow smaller over time if these techniques become more well known and more guys are using them? And if forums like these grow then "alpha males" are gonna experience increasing competition too. This will all lead to falling "sarging" success rates over time if the techniques become mainstream, as far as I can see. So, wouldn't you be better off to keep the knowledge to yourselves...those of you who know.

Go on... destroy my arguments

Ooh I like you already. I usually refrain from posting in girls' "Introduce Yourself" threads because that's super lame and super duper chode. Just watch; by the end of the day, you're going to have 2 pages of what is essentially "HI YOU ARE A GIRL I WANT YOUR ATTENTION BECAUSE I DIDN'T ACTUALLY LEARN ANYTHING HERE!!! PLZ GIVE ME ATTENTION!!! I'M NOT INTERNALLY VALIDATED!!!"

However, I'd like to welcome you and answer your questions because you asked some really good ones.

The techniques that we practice shouldn't be seen from the perspective of "manipulation." If the PUA uses them as such, he will fail because women are socially intelligent and can smell a rat from a mile away. Most of what we teach is centered around self-improvement. It's about learning how to put your best foot forward, to present yourself in the best way possible.

Face it, you can have two of the same dishes of food. If one of the dishes is presented nicely and the other one is thrown together to look like slop, which dish would you want to eat? They taste the same, but its all in the presentation. Girls do this kind of shit all the time with make-up and fashion. Nothing wrong with that.

By the way, we are all drawn toward different types of people. A woman who is very attractive and "high quality" to me will be different by the standards of the next guy, but all in all, the art we teach works BETTER on more intelligent, passionate, higher-quality women. I used to hate going to parties to game drunk chicks because it's actually HARDER in many ways for what we do.

As for your alpha male argument... I'm sorry, but it's so hard to take you seriously there. lol

Yeah, like I'm going to suddenly DECIDE not to "go down that road" of being attracted to women with hourglass figures anymore

Attraction isn't a choice, dearie.

And I'm not worried about the "competition." It's not like there's more women than there are men on this planet or anything.

Nope, there is a female moderator here, there has also been women who come and peruse the board, and, on occasion, you will find an active female member.
There are different factions within the community, based upon desired results. To look at a few of them, some men come here for a "quick fix" in bedroom action, some come to learn a new skill set when interacting with women, and then there are those of us that come to increase our quality of life in aspects of learning body language, increasing confidence, understanding social dynamics, and many other areas.

Yes, there are some techniques that are less than moral and/or ethical. They are discussed here for several purposes. Some guys want to learn them out of curiosity alone, some like to study them to use them, and then there are others that discuss them in order to bring to light the technique and it's intrinsic problem. The topic that comes to mind is the "October Man Sequence." If you want to read up on it, search this forum, you will find a wide array of threads that this technique is listed in, from learning it, to criticizing it.
I'm going to assume that these questions are rhetorical. If not, the answer is maybe. What each person wants is individual, it's not just men, women are the same. Some people are serial daters while others are serial monogamists, some people want to jump from one bed to another, others are looking for a spouse. It's an individual thing.
Being an alpha male has nothing to do with being an asshole or being controlling. Being an alpha male has everything to do with being confident i every decision that you make, not pussy-footing around, living life with a set of balls. Also, there is an aspect of that which is critical to being alpha: knowing what you want and working for it.

So, I pose this question to you: You say that you've been with an alpha male and you don't want to go down that road again. Based on my explanation, you don't want to be with a confident, hard working man who knows what he wants from life?
Susceptible women? You make it sound like we're out there to ruin people's lives. If you've been studying this material, at all, there should be a line that you're familiar with "leave them better than when you found them." Women don't want an introverted guy who doesn't know what he wants from life. Women don't want guys who don't work hard. Women don't want guys who aren't confident. So, no, the pool of "susceptible women" will not shrink, ever. Well, the only way that it will shrink is if the general female populous start to like unintelligent doormats who sit around all day doing nothing with their lives, then, yes, the pool will dry up.
There are different personality types. Not all personality types are compatible. Just because men become alpha, does not mean that they are overwhelmingly dominant cavemen. Each person has an element of alpha and beta personality. Many of us are not social robots just spitting out lines. Competition is a relative term, if you want me to get existential, we are all (not just in this community), always, in competition with each other. Women should be happy that we are doing this, it means that the bar is continually being raised. Women want to be charmed. In the movie Hitch, Will Smith says "No woman wakes up saying: 'God, I hope I don't get swept off my feet today!'"
"Sarging" is something that some members of the community, not all, do. Many of us, in Pick Up, use interpersonal skills in daily life, as I said before, to increase our overall quality of life. I, personally, do not sarge anymore. I used to to get over social anxiety. On occasion, when I feel myself falling back into my old, anxious, ways, I will go out and interact with as many people as possible, proving that people want to be spoken to and want to feel special.
Then we wouldn't be a community. We want to see the best for each other. We want each person to have the best quality of life possible and, hopefully, with some of the skills learned here, each person can have as good a life as possible.
Done.


Edit: Grammar

_________________
Life is a game. Win.

Thank you Chief and Medic, those were very informative responses. I am going to take a while and think more about what you have both said. It is great to hear there are some women here, I will look out for them. I wonder if they are here because they are curious, and rather perplexed, like me... or other reasons too?

Based on your responses, I think I must have read an unrepresentative sample of information in this forum so far. The discussions I read haven't come across as describing the positive values and intentions that you say are actually important to many PUAs. The tv programme I watched showed one young man quipping "Shall we do this the easy way, or should I get my rohypnol?" It also showed Adam L saying that he thought being detached gave him an "edge", and there was footage of him encouraging the interest of a girl who he stated he was actually finding rather "annoying". This programme and what I have read on here so far have painted a not very pleasant picture in my mind i guess.

I am very curious to hear about the men who approach and use the ideas in constructive and ethical ways though! Suicide rates are highest among young men in their teens and early twenties I believe. I think anything that helps men gain confidence, value social contact, and make meaningful relationships in their life time is a wonderful thing. Positive messages about learning social skills and confidence for both sexes is all good. Do any of the techniques you use involve cognitive therapy and positive thought patterns?

The other thing that springs to my mind from your responses is that I don't think I've understand exactly what is meant by "alpha male" in this context. I thought the posters here were using it to describe dominance or control of a female's behaviour in some way. When I said I would not choose an alpha male, I meant I would avoid a man who sought to dominate me in any way, including psychologically or through behavioural manipulation. You say it is not that simple, since we cannot choose who we are attracted to. And to some extent I agree, because I am attracted to some dominant men. But I consciously recognise that trait, know that it isn't good for me, and choose not to date those men. I select a guy I am attracted to, and who prefers, and enjoys, having a relationship on an equal footing. Basically, powerplay in the bedroom = fun. Powerplay in real life = waste of my time. I have not heard the terms alpha and beta personality before, nor the "October Man Sequence". So I'll find out about them and then I'm sure I'll get a better understanding of your responses.

I can see that it's human nature that some guys will use manipulative techniques to get notches on their bedposts; I bet some women would happily do so too. But actually, I can live with that if there are also men who are gaining a better future from the techniques, by using them to build meaningful relationships. I hope I can learn more about the positive approaches on here. I like it when people prove me wrong in a good way

btw, was "dearie" part of the pet name technique?... or am I being needlessly paranoid? *winks*

Your welcome.
Be on the look out for a forum moderator named Zip.
I must admit that I've said off hand things like this to people, but like many other things, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. If I say it with a smile and bit of laughter, I'm playfully joking.
I am a proponent of people being able to separate their emotional mind from their logical mind. I believe that when performing technical skills, the ability to separate increases proficiency. Like I tried to get across earlier, everyone is different, this Adam L character may feel and/or have a real advantage by detaching himself. That isn't everyone. When I'm out having a good time with my friends, I don't "detach." When I'm at work, I am most definitely detached. Once you learn that you have the ability to focus your energy on either the logical or emotional mind, you need to learn another skill set. The first skill is not only how to turn it on and off but WHEN to do it and HOW to do it. There is no specific way and it's very difficult to learn, but once done, it's quite empowering, I believe. The second skill set is that once you have learned it, sometimes you do not cognitively turn them on and off, you need to be able to cognitively realize that you have done so.
I, among other things, use affirmations. I will not share with you these, because they are quite personal, but I do use them quite often. I am also a proponent of therapy and counseling. I think that many people do not use the tools that are available to them to become the best, whole person that they can be.
... and you should.
The basic attraction "switches" that each person has are hardwired into your brain, not your mind or your personality. Women, across the globe, each day say "I don't know, there's just something about him."
I understand what you're saying, but the flip side of that is... hmm... analogy time... Me? I like Kashi Trail Mix Granola Bars. I R-E-A-L-L-Y like them, I have one almost every day as my mid morning snack. Does that mean that I don't find other kinds of granola bars tasty? Of course not. What I'm getting at is that you want to be with a guy who is a monogamist, like you, BUT, you cannot control the fact that you think that Matt Damon is a sexy mother fu**er. He plays badass roles all the time and he's rich and he's just cool as hell. Well the truth of the matter is that it has nothing to do with if he wants to settle down, he's still sexy... or at least People Magazine thinks he is.. Do you get what I'm saying? Oh... by the way... you say that you "select" men. Reality check: they've selected you before you even had an opportunity to "select" them.
It refers to an alpha male, just the same way that there are alpha females, but in order for anyone to be truly alpha, one but achieve balance. I may be an alpha male, but I have no choice but to be beta to my boss. I am not the boss, I receive orders from my boss. It's the natural ebb and flow of the universe, there are no clear cut lines anywhere.
I give you a bit of credit for not just focusing on us guys. Many, many women are manipulative, for various reasons, but, on more than one occasion, I've seen women use sex as a weapon, reward, and/or punishment. Now, that, my friend, is manipulation.

_________________
Life is a game. Win.

aa

I have to go to bed now *sob*, but I wanted to say Medic and jedtheavenger, your replies were really clear and made perfect sense to me! I will reply properly tomorrow Jedtheavenger... thank you... you have put a huge smile on my face! I hope you and Ms Fire Cracker produce explosions that shake your world and leave you glowing

Holy crap this chick is smart and open-minded. Nice. (Insert Pull here to follow the Push)
In no way shape or form can I condone that.
I was one of those depressed teens. Pickup saved my life. No joke.
Yes. There's plenty of that stuff. Yes. I know what you're talking about. I'm a psychology major. The PUA community is essentially a giant branch of the self-help (positive psychology) industry/movement.
A real alpha male has complete control over himself. A beta male lacks self control and is therefore dependent on external factors and other people for guidance and validation.
You get two more brownie points. Keep up the good work.
You're on your own on that one, Annie Dearest.

Annie, I have a note for you.

Most advance PUAs such as Chief and Medic, and some PUAs have a tendency to "game" you girls naturally.

I'm inferring Chief called you "dearie" naturally. Probably didn't even have the "technique" in his mind but did it by his own spontaneous self.

You'll notice many of us won't like to get into faking ourselves just to get women. Many of us like to freestyle it, making things feel much more free-flowing and free from stress of memorizing all these methods and canned lines on the spot.

We have grown into a lifestyle and personality of being such a person who would use these methods and techniques without... well, thinking about them.


As you gradually figure out what we're doing to seduce women, just keep in mind sometimes we run techniques and methods on women without noticing them ourselves.

I'm gonna throw an AFC opinion in here. I have not yet had a proper sarge (I must say that in every post lol) but basically throughout my life I have been completely useless when it comes to attracting females. I have had 1 or 2 lucky experiences but they were luck, and luck every once in a while is useless to me. I have literally in the 19 years of my life never approached a girl that I wanted to approach, the fear of rejection more than anything is what I believe has held me back, but since discovering this great community I say to hell with my fear!!!! The other day I approached a girl for the first time in my life, she didn't tear my head off or kick me in the nuts, we had a good little conversation, it didn't last long because I had a genuine time constraint (I was late for work) but the point was that after 19 years of shying away from social interaction with strangers by my own accord, thanks to this community and just 2 weeks of reading up on all the techniques, success stories and failiures, I had gained the confidence and mindset to stand up like a man and approach someone I took a fancy to which I had never done before, and that is just ONE time that I am incredibly proud of because I see it as the beginning of a journey, and I havent even begun my full journey yet.
I believe there are many more guys out there like me and numerous men who are now PUAs that were like me but kept working at it to become who they are today. Which is what I aim to achieve. A better standard of living.

I hope I havent rambled to much (I've said that in every thread tonight aswell lol) but I felt like an opinion of someone just starting in the game may be needed in this thread also aswell as experienced members to gain a different perspective.
Thanks
Musterion

_________________
"My toughest opponent is always myself"
Musterion's Journal

Annie

U got a point. We need to be original still. But the techniques give some guys the confidence to approach which they would not have otherwise. Is that such a bad thing? I was a total AFC but before I knew the game I was taught by a natural and find the game just extra ammunition for my allready deadly artillery.

waiting for your reply

be cool
take care
J

First of all, welcome to the forum! You're right in assuming that you're talking to a specialized cross-section of the forum - there are plenty of men here who have no interest in women in an intellectual context, and you probably won't be hearing much from them. I guess I would be another example of a man who became aware of the PUA community in an effort to better myself, rather than attempt to get laid. I'm someone who has his own passions, drive and successes in my life. I have a great career, I'm in great shape, I have any number of wonderful hobbies - I've come a long way from my formative years as the quiet fat kid in high school. I have a wonderful life that can only get better, and I'm actively looking for a person with whom I can share it. The one arena in which my hard work had not led to success was attraction and relationships. Once I got over the typical depression and bitterness associated with being lonely in that respect, I decided to learn all that I could about the issues that held me back.

It's no great secret that women are generally attracted to confidence. I and many of us here are good examples of reformed "nice guys" - genuinely kind, passionate, hardworking men with no concept of attraction and little understanding of how to project themselves into the social world. The kind that moms around the world think are a great catch, but single women end up ignoring. A man being unable to attract women, even when he has nothing but the best intentions at heart, plays havoc with his self image. Doubt, suspicion and bitterness sneak into every social interaction he has, and people (especially women) can see those negative traits a mile away. It's the classic vicious cycle: Man loses confidence, man attempts to meet women, women notice lack of confidence, women reject man, man loses confidence. My own personal rock bottom is not something I like to share with the whole world without reason, but I'd be more than happy to discuss it in an IM. And no, that wasn't a pick up line either. It's not necessarily that these men are dependent and weak - they just value women and their opinions enough that they take rejection to heart. It's a positive trait, but it works against you. That's the way most people are wired - mankind is a social animal. There are words for people who genuinely have no concern for the opinions of other people, and they range from "asshole" in mild cases to "sociopath" in severe ones.

Anyway, sometimes what is needed for people like us is a wake-up call. Just something to help one re-evaluate the situation they are in, and look at it from a wildly different perspective. Like you, I viewed the PUA as something to be reviled - a typical player, out to rack up a higher score than the other guys. What most of us are now are simply people who understand attraction, and who have some idea of how to create it. All the great personality traits in the world won't help a man if he's unwittingly sabotaging his chances to create an initial attraction, as I once did on a regular basis. Women are far more likely to notice a guy's positive personality traits if they're presented with a healthy dose of fun, flirtatious attraction. Instead of sitting around waiting for the foundations of this dynamic to change, we just decided to give women a chance to see us as something more than what they had been seeing before, in the hopes that they would then be willing to look a little deeper. For many of us, that was the only ingredient missing from our social lives. I don't have a mancrush on Mystery, and I don't spend my nights out tallying up negs and kino escalations. I would rather be honestly interacting with the women I meet. That said, there are a LOT of wonderful things to learn here, and a lot of great teachers. They just don't all need to be taken as gospel truth.

Annie, I hope you continue to challenge the things that we say on this board, and learn everything you can about PUA from our perspective. If all women had a understanding of initial attraction as we see it, they could separate the obnoxious players from the genuinely good, fun, confident men out there. Maybe they could even acknowledge that the quiet guy in the corner isn't in a different species from the happy guy at center stage after all. It took me a long time to find out how true that was.

Welcome! Welcome! Its always nice to see another female post!

_________________
"To Give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift" -Prefontaine

Not a PUA just a girl offering my opinions/advice

Annie... people use this game with evil intent and can pleasantly make u believe they have good intentions some posters here are a lot more skillful than others in that area.... you'd do best to learn from both sides

I am a female and just joined, after reading the forum for a while.

At first I was turned off by the PU community. It seemed shallow and I didn't like the use of the term 'hos.' However, I got past this and realized there was a lot for me to learn from this school of thought.

My #1 reason for being on this board: to learn something new which I can use to my benefit when negotiating any kind of interaction with the opposite sex. Or the same sex. Also, I get a lot out of hearing a male POV. I am in a relationship with a guy and reading these boards helps me understand him better. I have been PMing with a senior member of this forum and he's been lending me great advice!

As far as the TV show you're talking about -- I think it's going to represent the worst, most sensationalist aspect of any lifestyle because that is the tabloid nature of reality TV. I had to stop watching this kind of programming because it was putting my head in such a negative place, yet I found I was getting kind of addicted to it.

Otatop -- I am happy to hear there are guys around here who are not just interested in ONS.

I still have a lot to learn about this community. More will be revealed.