Oh Zip, that would never work, I like my steak burnt to a crisp and you're more of a bloody as hell type of gal.
I guess I must be a narcissistic masochist but I really enjoy the challenge of working my way to a girl's heart, even if it takes months. When it's easy, when a girl goes home with me literally 7 hours or less after meeting me, I feel a little cheated. Blah, that's probably the AFC in me speaking...I get this way when I get hungry. Excuse me I'll go shut him up with some steak, charred to coal-like perfection.

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afc-challenge-to-the-masters-social-anx ... 10108.html

Thats a good thing man. I always appreciate a good back and forth; the harder your struggle, the more likely you are getting a quality woman (from my experience). But what I am trying to say is when is enough enough? 7 Hours....fine, but not really rewarding/fun. Months? With no headway? It is all about the progress. If you are "working" at a girl then sure, three weeks w/e. But if you are working at her and not seeing any progress, or not getting anywhere....what would your decision be?

For me, I love the 'battle.' But at some point it needs to be over. A week. two weeks, awesome. Three weeks of constant banter, flirting, and conversing - with no result? Nexted.

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[color=red:7c51ae7520]email is a better option: thelockestar@gmail.com[/color:7c51ae7520][/size:7c51ae7520]

I agree with you, to a point. Of course, anyone who ask read this thread knows that I often give advice to move on from a girl who is dragging you along. The difference is dragging and fruitless teasing or taunting and playful power-struggle.

I believe what it comes down to is:
1.) Oneitis, by definition, is fixating on someone for an extended period of time and it's fruitless. Oneitis is my pet-peeve. Stop it. Usually this is spot-able by a very clear early frame announcement (Joseph W. South) on her part.

2.) Decide what kind of woman you want. If you want a simple, sweet, wonderful woman, you may not run into the dilemma we are talking about. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting this kind of girl. Hell, I want this kind of girl.

However, if you're looking for a woman who will intellectually challenge and stimulate you, keep you on your toes, etc., you may have to look closely to see if you're nexting someone who may be of of an excellent caliber just because she is a bit elusive.

Of course, there is no excuse for being a rude person. If she's not giving you the respect as a human being that you deserve, let her know (kindly) that she's being an asshole, and next her if she doesn't qualify herself in some way.

My point is that I see way too many guys drop fantastic women/opportunities because they are challenging.

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- Zip

You are right. And we are really saying the same thing. It will all depend on the situation and on each person though. You have to figure out (bringing it around to your first response) whether she is actually interested and just has an extremely strong frame, or if she is playing because she likes playing.

Would you say it can boil down to the PUA's perception of: is there going to be a result, or not?

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[color=red:7c51ae7520]email is a better option: thelockestar@gmail.com[/color:7c51ae7520][/size:7c51ae7520]

Hi Zip,
need some help!!!

So im kind of dating this hb9 for about 4-5 days, we met on a blind date thing. I thought I did well the whole night and towards the end id do things like grabbing her arm and link it with mine, do some C+F type of things. I ended up sleeping at her house that night. All we did was make out and little tease stuff. I have been kind of a man whore in the passed and for 1 i didnt want her to think it was a 1 night stand and try to push sex like usual, and never see her again. For 2 I wanted to start this relationship on the right foot, unlike my ex where we fucked the first night and had no emotional connection it was all sexual.

I had fun that night and saw her the night after, it was kind of a train wreck. After a movie we went to bed where we were making out and she persisted to tell me she didnt want to have sex with any 1 she didnt really like. I was totally fine with that and respected it, but at the same point it made me not want to initiate anything cause i was afraid of crossing an invisable line. Then she said it was ok if we did other stuff. I was like what oral? She said yea and mabey a little toying. So blah blah blah she gives me head, I eat her out and in the heat of the moment we end up starting to fuck! Im litterally having sex with her and she starts saying how tight it is and such, talking dirty. I was like hold on ill go grab a condom, and right when i got up to grab one she instantly stopped me and didnt want to continue. I was dumbfounded. You would have to be there but it was really akward for the rest of the night. I think she felt like she let herself down.

I have been back over there a couple of times since then and spent the night last night. I tried to talk to her about it a bit and she said everything is ok but it doesnt feel that way to me. So last night in bed it was akward again we kissed and that was about it, I was mabey a little afraid of going passed her boundary again. I asked her what her ideal man was and she listed everything im not. She told me she was trying something new.

Through all this she still wants me to call her, but I dont want this to be in our way. My question is what should i do? I want her to feel comfortable and i want to have a sex life of some sort, even if its not sex. I think being sexual is a way to make a really good connection. I am also wondering if mabey dating type stuff will open her up a bit more cause the only time ive seen her was at her house at night after work. Mabey like hiking, coffee, something? Since that night she has acted slightly different and im not sure what i should do! Should i be more fun and spontaneus and open her up or act differently. Or should i say fuck it?

Thanks for any advise your the best....Feelsonumb

Hi zip, lets help you get to 50 pages so that you can give a party. I have one general question for you.

1: What would you advice new AFC's that want to become PUA's? By this I don't just mean on what to read but more to the point what strategy to use to become a PUA. For instance you talked about not to be above using canned material as an AFC as training wheels at first. On a side note, do you mean good canned material like that from people on this forum or something one comes up on their own? And as another side question: Do you make nice guys that approach you aware of PUA if they are not that good at it?

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About the name Xenu:
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007 ... ogy-p1.php

Dude,

This girl sounds like she has some issues. I'm sure she's nice and deserves to be happy, but you deserve not to feel dragged through the mud. Plus, she's making a frame announcement that she doesn't want to like you. I'd cut off contact. Right now, she's totally in control of everything. She starts to have sex with you, talk dirty, then she doesn't want to continue. Everything is at her house, correct? Cut it off and go find yourself someone who is worth your time.

If later on, she figures out whatever she's trying to figure out for herself, and your paths cross... start over. Build more comfort. Keep a more fluid/subtle sexual frame.

Let her deal with her demons right now, on her own.

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- Zip

give a party? I thought you were throwing one for me?
I don't like to tell people a specific strategy. Honestly. I'm all about learning as much as you can, experimenting with different methods, exploring yourself in the world around you, and eventually coming up with something that is a natural, unique personal method.

Canned material, in my opinion, is any material that is prepared and already field tested (whether it's your own canned material, or canned material you got off a forum.) It's canned because you have it already prepared and stored for use. If people like to experiment with their own material, that's fine. However, if people want to work on other aspects of their game at first (posture, body language, mirroring, social angles, proximity awareness, vocal tone, etc.) and feel more comfortable getting over AA with the support of canned material... fuck yeah, go for it.

Good canned material is relative. What works? What has been field tested? What is the best fit for you? Every pua is unique, or at least, should be. I don't care if you found it on some random forum or out of "The Game." If it clicks with you, use it.

As far as meeting nice guys who are not good at pick up... they'll become aware of it if they ask me what I do for a living (99.9% of AFC's, this is their fourth question in.) That usually separates the boys from the men. They either run for the hills or start getting really into asking me about it. I've actually found a few clients and students this way

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- Zip

I got two serious questions that I'm wondering about.

- Do you think women are far more cautious in who they sleep with today then 20-30 years ago? If that's the case, do you think the media or STD's are a reason for that?

&

-Is lying really the most fun a girl can have without taking her clothes off?

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"Nobody makes a greater mistake than he did nothing because he could do only a little." - Edmund Burke

*thinks hm doesn't this fall in the category never buy drink for a woman. Also thinks that could be expensive *
Well i'd love to zip, unfortunately it would be somewhat difficult since you're living at another continent. But if you come over here i promise i'll give you a private party.

Btw just got negged by a 30+ yr old female colleague at the parking lot about my parking skill lol. Could not think of a good reply though
Ok fair enough. I do think tough that there could be some general strategy/advice on the learning process on this forum. I am working something out for myself which might form a usefull framework for other AFC's as well. To be frank most of the stuff is obvious, then again so are PUA techniques such as MM, C&F etc.
Cool. Just out of curiousity how much do your services cost?

And here are two other important questions:

1: There is this good (we go way back) friend of mine who is quite social and witty, and is actually a natural at C&F (without knowing of it). He has his share of female friends and acts C&F with them which they obviously like. However he is worried that if he really wants to start dating with one of them they'll still think he is joking around and won't take it seriously. I on the other hand don't think that that would be a problem. What do you think?

2: What is the meaning of life?

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About the name Xenu:
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007 ... ogy-p1.php

Zip. As a woman, do you do any of the following:

1) Kiss guys you aren't interested in or attracted to? (when your sober)

2) Go out on dates to get a free meal?

3) Stay on a date with a guy for 5-1/2 hours if you weren't having fun?

I wonder if this happened to him....

The same thing has happened to me several times before, and I am sure it has happened to everyone - one too many times. I would say maybe she was just being nice...or confused....or using her sexuality to get things she wanted.

But thats not from the correct perspective. I want to add to his question though:

what do you think the true reason behind actions like that would be? And do you think it is okay to do things like that?

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[color=red:7c51ae7520]email is a better option: thelockestar@gmail.com[/color:7c51ae7520][/size:7c51ae7520]

1.) As a rule, no, but this is a fine line. Women use kissing a man to gauge potential or compatibility. Have I done it in the past, yes.

2.) No. But if that's all that I get out of a particular date... time well spent.

3.) No. I get bored. If I'm having fun with him on human being level rather than a romantic level, I'll continue to hang out with him. I'm polite, but I'm not that polite.

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- Zip

Look, is it "okay?" All is fair in love and war. If women use their sexuality to dupe men, it's the responsibility of men to educate themselves. Is it okay to rob houses? I don't think so, but if someone leaves their doors wide open and their valuables out... I'm not going to feel sorry for them.

Not all women are users. Not all men are takers. Be wise enough to know the difference between a woman who is taking you for a ride and a woman who deserves a little consideration.

In a society that celebrates physical beauty, of course there are women smart enough to capitalize on the situation. Both men and women play dirty tricks. Not all men and women play dirty tricks.

If this dating game were easy, I'd be out of the job.

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- Zip

Zip, let me know what your thoughts on the questions that I asked. I'm curious to know

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"Nobody makes a greater mistake than he did nothing because he could do only a little." - Edmund Burke