PUA vs. PORN STAR



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 Post subject: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:04 am 
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A porn star might be able to teach about sex better than a PUA can, but who wins when it comes to teaching seduction?

A huge new seduction training course just came out today called Female Mind Mastery, and it's made by the same porn stars behind the 2 Girls Teach Sex program.

Since I've got plenty of friends in high places in the seduction industry, I got the chance to go through this product a couple days ago before its public release in order to write a fair review.

If any non-PUA opens his or her mouth to spout some dating advice, I usually don't expect to hear anything valuable. I've heard it all... and everything about dating and seduction has been systematized in my head through PUA knowledge and years and years of experience through the eyes of a pickup artist. When it comes to seduction, I know my shit, and so do other PUAs. All of the "outsiders" can't even compete.

Or so I thought.

After going through Female Mind Mastery, I made some vital realizations.

It turns out that porn stars are porn stars because they really love sex.

And they don't just have sex on film for a paycheck. It turns out they've all had a lot of sex in their spare time just for fun (both the male and female porn stars)... a lot more than than any pickup artist, that's for sure.

These guys and girls don't try to make the process sound like some sort of nerdy video game, either. They explain everything in plain English for anyone to be able to listen to easily without feeling like they're in some faggoty Nerd Revenge club.

I hate to bash on my own kind here, but after checking out Female Mind Mastery, I feel like porn stars are on a whole 'nother level above the PUAs. Let's face it, guys. We're fucking weird. We call women "targets" and give them names like "HB8" like they're some sort of product with a serial number. These rituals of objectification build an inherent block to connecting with the opposite sex. You would think that the porn industry objectifies women more than PUAs do, but all of the stuff in Female Mind Mastery seems super legit and respectful.

I say we should graduate from standard PUA mindsets to something much more awesome and effective. Female Mind Mastery might just be the key.

So... PUA vs. Porn Star...

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:58 am 
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Makes sense so far...


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:59 pm 
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PUA vs Porn Star

Well, even though porn starts get more sex than regular PUA's, there is still a difference in jobs. A PUA can have a very succesfull job for the rest of his life, even when he gets old. Now we have the porn star. I don't think many porn stars at the age of 50-60 or older get many jobs. (it could be that I'm wrong, if so than forget this argument)

I wouldn't be very happy to have children of my own telling their friends that their daddy is a porn star. That's what comes up in mind at least.

But as far as seduction, than yes, porn stars might be better. Since they get laid so often, they have a lot of experience to give a woman mind-blowing sex. Many PUA's (at least that's what most of them call themselves) have a little bit less experience, though they know exactly how to attract a woman and bring get her into bed the same day or night if chosen well.

I think that most of us cannot really judge porn starts vs PUA's, since most of us have little to no idea how they seduce women out of the film set. Are they just a sexual than us, or more sexual? If someone got a video from it, please share, that would be good to compare the porn stars with the PUA's.

Wallie

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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:30 pm 
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Sounds quality but are any of the concepts genuinely new to community or is it just what we already know put together really well in one package + more focus on sexy time?


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:54 pm 
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Isn't it a little bit unfair to compare the two? Porn stars love what they do. They are exposed to sex more than the average PUA so their seduction skills will be far superior than a PUA who is concerned more with bedding the girl. More contact in seductive moments with the opposite sex vs. a PUA who goes through the daily motions of society and plays it by the numbers. I don't know if it is fair to compare the two. But I do understand your point of view, just would like to hear more clarification on this.


I may look into this program, is it any different from the other programs? I have other products but I rather not have a rehash of the same material.

Mr. A

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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:56 pm 
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But as far as seduction, than yes, porn stars might be better. Since they get laid so often, they have a lot of experience to give a woman mind-blowing sex. Many PUA's (at least that's what most of them call themselves) have a little bit less experience, though they know exactly how to attract a woman and bring get her into bed the same day or night if chosen well.

I think that most of us cannot really judge porn starts vs PUA's, since most of us have little to no idea how they seduce women out of the film set. Are they just a sexual than us, or more sexual?
I'm guessing that a lot of male porn stars might actually have no idea what the hell they're doing when they seduce a woman outside of the bedroom, but it appears as though some of them - like Marcus London in Female Mind Mastery - paid very close attention to how the whole process works.

I think it's an interesting thing to think about... Porn stars will clearly have the advantage in terms of sexual confidence, not just because they know how to last for more than an hour in bed and "rise to the occasion" on command in front of a camera, but because sex is literally their job. I'm guessing it's deeply implanted in their brains that sex is what they do.

This direct advantage in sexual confidence is, I believe, superior to any seductive confidence a pickup artist can have. A pickup artist like me would say "I absolutely know that I can show that girl a great time while seducing her like no other man she has ever met." I feel like that can't compete with a porn star mentality that says "I absolutely know that I can show that girl a great time in bed like no other man she has ever met." It's straight to the point and it will seduce faster.

I feel like this "porn star seducer" mentality is only superior in seduction outcomes over pickup artistry because pickup artistry is about making the actual seduction the art. It's a focus on the enjoyment of the journey while the porn-staristry is about making the sex the art, thus having it be the focus on the enjoyment of the journey that begins only after that seduction journey. It's like these porn stars look at PUA seduction like it's child's play, and maybe rightfully so.

I'm not entirely too sure of what I'm saying anymore, and I think I'm just rambling.


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:54 pm 
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I just watched the sales video.

Making the girl feel safe and secure/protected sure makes sense. There's just one problem. The sales pitch is not congruent. Adam isolated the girl in the bar before they even went out the street to let the girl feel safe and protected.

I think one secret that porn stars have versus the PUA is that the PUA is too focused on peacocking. Meanwhile, the porn stud uses something more primal and effective... MONSTER COCKING.

Image

:twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:28 am 
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"We should graduate from standard PUA mindsets to something much more awesome and effective". Quote from chief.

For someone who considers self-improvement paramount, i would say that i couldn't agree more. Yet, dwelling in porn land mentality realm. That's just WRONG. And I'm not expressing this out of some moral imperative.
But before i go further, allow me to guide you to a 'more' common ground, so you can identify a little bit more with my way of thinking.

In order to accomplish that, please, read this words from the former pornographic actress and actual, author, motivational speaker and Executive Director of the Pink Cross Foundation, which is an
anti-pornography activist foundation, Shelley Lubben.

cbn site -> /700club/features/thetruth_lubben.aspx

As for the product himself (female mind mastery), i must say that i have serious negative biases towards something that states right of the bat, the secret to seduce any women into bed, in 10 minutes or less during the first meeting. As i have towards the ones that promise massive amounts of 'easy' money in some get rich quick scheme, a perfect set of abs by the use of some i-tech machine, lose 5 stones of weight overnight with some natural product based pill, rejuvenate 20 years through the application of some snail goo cream. And many, may others who claim the same 'to awesome to be true' results.

I know they have to build the hype with the use of marketing techniques, in a way the product appears more compelling to the customers in order to break through the competition, whish in itself alone doesn't always portraits a lack of intrinsic value. But in any ways, to wrap it up, until being convinced otherwise, i chose to remain skeptic.

Religious mambo jambo Disclaimer: i know right! CBN (Christian Broadcasting network), nonetheless it goes direct to the point in witch i want to found the bases for may rationalization.

Semantics disclaimer: English is not my first language, or second btw. Keeping that in mind, if some parts of my text have an odd ring to it, use your imagination. :twisted:
But, in the other hand, feel free to correct me, i will be appreciated. :wink:

Peace,

Valentino


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:00 am 
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Quote:
"We should graduate from standard PUA mindsets to something much more awesome and effective". Quote from chief.

For someone who considers self-improvement paramount, i would say that i couldn't agree more. Yet, dwelling in porn land mentality realm. That's just WRONG. And I'm not expressing this out of some moral imperative.
But before i go further, allow me to guide you to a 'more' common ground, so you can identify a little bit more with my way of thinking.

In order to accomplish that, please, read this words from the former pornographic actress and actual, author, motivational speaker and Executive Director of the Pink Cross Foundation, which is an
anti-pornography activist foundation, Shelley Lubben.

cbn site -> /700club/features/thetruth_lubben.aspx

As for the product himself (female mind mastery), i must say that i have serious negative biases towards something that states right of the bat, the secret to seduce any women into bed, in 10 minutes or less during the first meeting. As i have towards the ones that promise massive amounts of 'easy' money in some get rich quick scheme, a perfect set of abs by the use of some i-tech machine, lose 5 stones of weight overnight with some natural product based pill, rejuvenate 20 years through the application of some snail goo cream. And many, may others who claim the same 'to awesome to be true' results.

I know they have to build the hype with the use of marketing techniques, in a way the product appears more compelling to the customers in order to break through the competition, whish in itself alone doesn't always portraits a lack of intrinsic value. But in any ways, to wrap it up, until being convinced otherwise, i chose to remain skeptic.

Religious mambo jambo Disclaimer: i know right! CBN (Christian Broadcasting network), nonetheless it goes direct to the point in witch i want to found the bases for may rationalization.

Semantics disclaimer: English is not my first language, or second btw. Keeping that in mind, if some parts of my text have an odd ring to it, use your imagination. :twisted:
But, in the other hand, feel free to correct me, i will be appreciated. :wink:

Peace,

Valentino
Unlike religion which is faith-based (you don't need any proof to take people's money), the MPUA forum gives free samples that we can test on field. To see and experience is to believe; that's how many of us get to buy PUA products not just through marketing hype.

I just think the marketing copy for the sales video has been poorly executed. Having field tested several of the Chief's techniques, I am more likely to believe him than some religious guy's say so.

:twisted:

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general-questions/topic137931.html


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:43 am 
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Quote:

Unlike religion which is faith-based (you don't need any proof to take people's money), the MPUA forum gives free samples that we can test on field. To see and experience is to believe; that's how many of us get to buy PUA products not just through marketing hype.

I just think the marketing copy for the sales video has been poorly executed. Having field tested several of the Chief's techniques, I am more likely to believe him than some religious guy's say so.

:twisted:
Did you even read the article!?

I already knew that the fact that it was in a religious site would take away most of his credibility from the start, guess the disclaimer didn't come true with is purpose, it was sadly expected. The thing is, it could be found in other places without the religious innuendo, is not that important, in fact, doesn't matter at all. It was a means to a end.
If you want to go deeper in the subject prized in the said 'article', read the book from whish it was
abridged, i must warn thou, it's a little bit heavy.

It was only referred as a mean to set a premises to my thoughts in the matter, apparently rather radical.
As you may find if you keep reading, i believe this porn people came from a very unhealthy and damaging place. Thus, my difficulty in attributing props to anything that comes form there, even so, i can always be persuaded.

As for the op, I'm not refusing is view, i'm only offering mine, is what people do in forums, is what he expected when he opened this thread, i hope.
I have a open mind, and good judgment, i like to believe, but blindly trust that the product is worthy just because he says so, plus the arguments he used, it's just not good enough for me, i don't have the same kind of relationship that you have. Once again, don't misinterpret me. It's is opinion, i respect that.

Now, back to where i was.

The men and women that appear in the pornographic videos are respective actors and actress, why ?, well, because they are performing. And what does this imply? To start, the scenes are directed to the viewers, to appease their longings instead of those acting, that's why that crap took hours and hours of filming to be edited in the end, by the way, the order displayed is almost never the filming order, normaly they start with the end.
With fake motions, fake moans, fake orgasms, weird fucking positions due to the camera angles so they can oversize the cocks in the screen, or go as far as to use rubber ones. All this with the solo intent to play with the costumers insecurities and anxieties, and in doing so, perpetuate the porn ultimate myth, dick size not only matters but is everything, and if you don't have one big enough to play golf with, well, it's a death sentence, you may as well forget about connecting with real women in general and conformed yourself to shoot your loads into a pc screen, or mac, for those of you that insist to be different. All you need is a quick peek in a porn site to see what kind of publicity they entice people in.

In the current world with the availability of such 'entertainment', one may fall into believing that whatever they do portraits the reality of sexual intercourse. Can you see the pitfalls?
Many of us go so far as to use that as learning platform, and go on to emulate whatever one saw.
Once more, I'm not saying this from a moral standpoint, fuck morals. I'm pointing this out simply because such approach is harm full, unless you want to go around having shallow, emotionless, detached, awkward, 'robotic' type sex. Providing that somehow you already have a girl to 'experiment' with.

I'm stating this due that i firmly believe that an average Joe banging the same woman for years in a row (not constantly, lol) knows more about pleasing their girls than this self proclaimed professional sex gurus.

One could also assume that this 'guys' found themselves in the porn business, due to their heightened sexual frame that lead them in the ultimate chase for pussy. Mind blowing, right!? And you can correct me if i am wrong, but using PUA lingo as a resource one could go and call most of these fuckers, Naturals. In others words, they could naturally attracts girls to begin with, no surprise there.
Even that the 'quality' of the girls is very disputavel.

And yes, as a result of their work 'ambience', one can also fairly assume that they are more comfortable around a women from a sexual framework.
Proceeding with this line of thought, yes, some of them would display less neediness, less despair, they would be more outcome detached and more calibrated and in tune with their display of 'animal' energy .
And so would be a experienced 'real world' seducer (or PUA). Much better IMHO, because the seducer instead of enter a stage already naked, mute with a quimical induced boner, needs to be social savvy, articulated, elegant, between many other things, depends from is voice tone, grooming, personality, oratory skills, ability to set up meetings and many others logistic related affairs, handling multiple sex partners, in different stages of receptiveness, being proficient at interact with men and women in more or less social settings. And much, much more. That's why the PUA lingo was invented, to move throughout all this.

Just food for thought.

What kind of asset's does invariably a porn male actor have outside the film setting?
All of you, for fucks sake, don´t answer monster cook. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:17 am 
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Guys,

I am very impressed with how this discussion evolved. Lots of great ideas being thrown around here.

Let's keep up this momentum!


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:28 am 
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I tried the product, was not for me. Have a couple of notes that are worth mentioning.

The marketing is highly misleading:

In the marketing video, Kirsten was doing the talking, and Marcus London was shown as a guest speaker. Actually, it´s his program, and he is not an impressive speaker. Also, the material is presented as very concrete, and easy to use, when in reality it´s abstract at best, and feels like any one with a brain would know it.

It is very boring:

They try to sound intellectual, and educted, makes you feel a little like looking at a boring documentary. The kind of documentary that even if you tried to take in the material, you would not be able to due to the fact you are falling asleep every five minutes.

I laughed at the sex material:

Says it all really. His Cunnilingus was pathetic, and the performance was based on having sex in the right positions. Even when the girls were showing there was a lack of "wow this is new and awesome" factor. It was at the level that if you have had sex at least a couple of times, you would know this.

As for the discussion:

I think we can compare porn stars with some naturals. Like naturals, they usually have a few things going for them, and they have found a way to get sex. Usually if you put a natural outside his preferred situation, where his advantages doesn´t matter and the people are not the kind he is used to, then he is going to struggle. Check out James Deen on youtube, there are a few interviews with him there, notice his attitude towards sex and women. It´s interesting and worth taking in, but with that said, there´s nothing more to learn from such a person if you don´t have the opportunity to hang with them.

To sum it up, I don´t think it is worth it trying to learn seduction from a porn star. Sure, you can learn a lot from their attitude towards things, but you can learn that from an experienced seducer as well.

Learn seduction from your own experience and get some direction from those who have walked the same path before you.


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:11 am 
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Just wanted to share...

I have 2girlsteachsex watched about 2/5 of the product. I find it very strange how the host is extremely nervous around that brunette girl when talking about sex. Yet, he claims to be great at sex now that he knows the stuff he's sharing.

So basically, through body language, the host does a shitty job selling his product. However, the actual content in the product seems good.

@Chief
I think I remember you mentioning something about how a girl saying "He showed me a great time in bed" > "He showed me a great time at so and so". According to that female in the video, she said that dates and dinners are good, but that sex is the body of the relationship. She says to imagine a pie and 98% of the pie would be sex and 2% would be other stuff. She says that without sex life is miserable.

She also said that if the man can provide great sex nothing else matters!

^^Fuark DHV routines brah and hop on dat dere eye contactz!


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:32 am 
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Quote:
@Chief
I think I remember you mentioning something about how a girl saying "He showed me a great time in bed" > "He showed me a great time at so and so". According to that female in the video, she said that dates and dinners are good, but that sex is the body of the relationship. She says to imagine a pie and 98% of the pie would be sex and 2% would be other stuff. She says that without sex life is miserable.

She also said that if the man can provide great sex nothing else matters!
I definitely agree that being a great lover is vitally important in so many ways.

However, women are different from person to person! Some of them just aren't as sexual as porn stars. Hell, some can't even feel sexual attraction because of some unnamed condition that afflicts plenty of people, both men and women.

The fact that I'm a good lover in bed definitely contributes to making my relationship with my girlfriend amazing, and even helps hold things together when things get tough between us. However, she's had ex-boyfriends who were absolute shit in bed but the relationship was still held together by some kind of strong love.

I wouldn't say you can generalize that all women feel that 98% of a relationship is all about sex, but it's probably true for porn stars lol.


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 Post subject: Re: PUA vs. PORN STAR
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:48 pm 
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In terms of the wider argument, I'm not sure there's all that much of a difference. "Porn stars are porn stars because they really love sex". Surely a pick up artist/someone trying to get better with girls on this forum for instance loves sex or wants more sex. There are plenty of threads on here that outline the importance of being sexual, or portraying a sexual vibe and of showing her a confident sexual vibe. Without this aspect most pickup simply becomes chatting with a friend.

But it's a lot harder to produce a sexual vibe if you're a virgin than it is if you've had great sex with loads of women. If you know that she would have the best night of her life with you, you have a confidence and a sexualness that simply can't be had if in the back of your own mind you've got doubts over your own performance in bed. (That's why my advice to the inexperienced is actually a little bit against the grain; don't necessarily be so picky when you first start out. Obviously don't drop your standards too low, but sexual experience with average girls will trump chatting to real hot girls and getting no sex in the long run.)

And to that extent, I think Flexbrah's point may be about right. There comes a point in any relationship where it's either going to get serious or end. When that point comes, sex alone isn't going to sustain the relationship. However, anything before that point I would argue is possibly about 98% to do with good sex. If it's a one night stand and you know you can give her the best night of her life, you're more confident, so the sexual vibe comes through and basically your confidence in your sexual ability gets you laid. If it's the early stages of a relationship and you blow her mind, she's probably going to keep coming back. Only when she starts to think that this has either got to get serious or end (because she's developing feelings or whatever) is when things other than sex start to play an important part. Of course some girls will get to that point quicker than others; some will be happy to have a friends with benefits type situation for years, whilst others will want commitment almost straight away.


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