Ok, so I've been signed up to those free newsletters from Ross Jeffries and some other PUAs, what I wanted to know is, Is Speed Seduction the "best" method in terms of getting results in ANY situation? I am considering buying his Home Study Course, but as it's very $$$$$ pricey, I wanna know, do any of you guys have it, and how well does it work for you?

I have already used a few of the techniques and patterns in his newsletters, but I want the full-on MEAT of the technique, the problem is there are all these newer "gurus" out there claiming that their product is the best.

RJ claims they are all hacks (probably just marketing), nevertheless, his method does seem very time-consuming to learn. But Mystery Method is even harder for me just because of how rigid everything is in sequence. Mystery teaches naked structure with a few interesting routines. Jeffries concentrates on suggestive language and inner game... And I'm also looking at Mehow, Style, Carlos Xuma, etc... which one has the most SOLID method? (i.e. the one that works best EVERYWHERE, not just in bars and clubs.)

Cuz some say RJ is outdated, he never updated his HSC, but he claims he is always at the cutting edge. Is his stuff really that hard to learn? Is he worth more of my time than, say, Mystery or Swinggcat or Mehow?

Welcome to the forum HotIce.

As far as which method is most SOLID, there just isn't a straight answer like you are looking for. There are different methods because we don't all have the same personality. Now, for me, I recommend Mystery Method to EVERYONE to START with, not for the prepackaged stuff in it, but because of the CORE principles that you learn from it. Sure, there is a system in it, and this system works, but even after you learn the system, you can then learn where to break the rules of that very system and still make it work, but you HAVE to know the core attraction switches.

Anyway, as far as which method works for you, you will have to test some different ones out for yourself. Personally, I wouldn't drop a bunch of money on one thing, since you are starting out. And, as I already said there's not ONE system that is just SOLID for everyone everywhere.

Now, sure, you may have to spend some money to learn some things, unless you are really patient and great at research, but I wouldn't drop thousands or even several hundred on one product right now at this point, since you are starting.

well, actually I do have Mystery Method (the book... as well as DYD)... It does have very good structure... when I first read it I was amazed at all the mistakes I had made in my sarges earlier (not DHVing, player traps, etc.) So I do realize that the core framework of it is very useful. What I actually meant by "SOLID" is, for example, that although MM provides and excellent framework, a lot of the gambits in the actual book are specifically for bar game, i.e. it would be insanely hard to pull some of that stuff at a mall or a college campus (which tend to be the two places where I do most of my sarging) or at stores or wherever. So in terms of actual material, I am interested in a lot of NLP and patterns, etc. and also since Ross Jeffries has been around the longest, and still teaches packed seminars, I figure maybe someone on these forums has used his stuff and has an idea of how much work is needed to make it effective (I'm not lazy, just looking for second opinions before I spend hundreds of $$$!) because I've seen clips of him where the students say it's super effective.

Plus, Ross emphasizes methods for nailing both outer and inner game (inner game is a major sticking point of mine), but Mystery Method seems to say very little about inner game, other than "be confident". Again, since I already bought Mystery's book, I'm not looking to use only one method, just wanted to know how effectively RJ covers all aspects of seduction.
I know that no one method works 100% perfect for everyone - I like the precision of MM, now I'm thinking of doing a mixture of Mystery Method, Ross Jeffries, and maybe Juggler or Mehow. The fact is, Jeffries has by far the most expensive seduction course, and I've heard some PUAs say this is because his patterns are SO powerful that he doesn't want people abusing them, so he charged high price so only serious students will buy it.

And plus, the fact that he's figured out a system that works WITHOUT the good looks or peacocking of so many other PUAs is something that definitely speaks to me (I'm not exactly ugly, but lets just say my combination of facial features and skin tone isn't really the the most comforting thing to the typical American female in a post 9/11 world - whether in clubs, malls or elsewhere - yeah I've heard race doesn't matter, I mostly agree, but most "races" don't have to worry about getting rejected or flaked on out of FEAR). plus peacocking doesn't seem so congruent with my personality, and I don't want to just imitate a PUA like Mystery and look fake.

Sorry if I was not clear before, the main points I wanted to get were
1) who has bought and used Ross Jeffries' course
2) If you have used it, how effective is it compared to some of the other PUA's methods, and how good is it in combination with them (like say, with MM?)
3) How long did it take to master RJ's material?
4) Do you think it was worth the investment?
5) Would you recommend Speed Seduction to new PUAs? (and I mean the actual Speed Seduction course, not the "unlimited confidence" tapes.)

any help from anyone on this forum would be greatly appreciated, but especially if you have used Ross Jeffries' course.

i consider mystery to be good for your core system

and then use rj to supplement your game as well as others

check out badboy, and david x as well.

rj is great but dont rely soley on him

_________________
"100 PERCENT FREE GUITAR LESSONS @ http://www.stringmania.blogspot.com" "I will turn your face to alabaster, when you find your servant is your master" - The Police - Wrapped around your finger."
Skittlepimp

Hey man this is my only problem with RJ. Its creepy.....instead of being the fun, outgoing, cool guy. You are the in the corner trying to hard guy. RJ doesn't necessarily teach attraction, so much as seduction. There is a difference. If you don't like the structualness of Mystery. Then I suggest looking at David DeAngelo, Juggler, and Razorjack. They all use a more natural approach.

I think the best idea..and the concept that most of us seem to follow here...is that one system isnt better then another, but all can benifit you.

Style did much the same thing, he learned from everyone and thats what makes him so good.

For me i use MM as a good foundation, use David D for some humor/C&F, NLP (not really RJ) for inner game (outter soon), and any other methods i can find to supplement everything else.

NLP is a very powerful psychological tool, it doesnt seem like the easiest to learn...and i also find RJ kinda creepy.

So if its not gonna break your bank i say go for whatever material you cant get for free and work all over in makeing yourself a better you.

_________________
-Ka-
"Be the same, only better."

I think RJ is a herb.

Everyone has their owns views on it but I think he is using NLP for the wrong reasons.

_________________
I'd rather go out swinging than strike out looking.
A lifestyle is a terrible thing to waste.
What I say when I see her is what I'll say.

I will give credit to Jefferies for being an innovator. However, the fact of the matter is, NLP use in this matter isn't going to get you more than laid. Jefferies advocates the idea of "seduction" not attraction. By seducing a woman and getting them to do something. You can't form a relationship on this manipulation. NLP is great for a self-confidence boost, but when you rely on it for pick-up you aren't developing anthing long term.

hmm....first person I've heard say that.
But, I guess you're right. Using hypnosis to get women to fuck isn't cool;
but still, if they FEEL like they like you, their emotions will take them where
they want to be.

Personally, I believe that as long as I'm happy, and the girl is happy, then
there's nothing wrong with being in a relationship with her, and having sex.

However, I DO think that it's wrong to hypnotize a chick, fuck her, then never
call again. I think that's just wrong on all account, 'cause women have feelings
too, whether we like it or not.

So if you're going to bang a chick, be prepared to take some responsibility.

I have david deangelos book and I feel its incomplete information where as ive only read a few free samples of mysterys stuff and see a huge diffrence because its more in depth. Anyways I have this interveiw with Rion Williams. He says social dynamics hence(mysterys technique) is only 6% of building attraction. he claims that having the right energy makes up the other 94% He teaches men how to be naturals quote on quote and mentioned NLP. So here I am thinking im on to something using myterys technique and cocky funny then this guy says having the right energy is where it all starts. Now what do I do? Do I have to buy another book on how to be a natural and give off good energy? Ross jeffries mentioned somethwhat of the same thing. That its about the energy you have that people can sense. Thats what builds attraction according to him . Listen..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JAXTvt5tleA

Alright I can address that in depth for you brand. The concept of "energy" applies to being an alpha-male. However, the process by which DD and Mystery present is a way to direct your alpha abilities. I will tell for a fact that if you do this shit and don't believe in yourself and can hold conversations you will fail.

NLP can be used to boost your confidence. That is where alot of this comes into play. The difference between naturals and unnaturals is that naturals are great conversationalists, they know to talk about anything and make it interesting. Unnaturals have to be decent conversationalists but have structure they use for attraction. Both however, share the need for self-confidence. You have to give off the fibe that you are a fun happy person.

What you need to do is analyze your self-confidence and AA. If you have issues with this, work on them. Once you are a confident person, pick a method of which to follow; MM, DD, or a natural approach like Juggler, Gambler, or Razorjack.

One of the ebooks i have says for me to think like the women should feel greatful that im talking to them. Is this something you agree with? Also did you listen to that ross jeffries interveiw that i put on my last post? Mystery says he still gets approach anxiety where ross jeffries says he can cure it? Maybe I should learn nlp because I started out with a low self esteem to begin with. I have gained some self confidence.

Hey how we all doing?

There are many things that should be taken into account when picking a course or seminar to choose from.

RJ was an innovator and taught many guys how to gain confidence while his ethics and morals do not match everyones whith out him there is no Mystery Style etcetera....

What type of personality do you have?
How do you learn?
What type of game do you wish to yield in the end?
And where your at when you start...

1) Your personality will determine how you respond to different methods of gaming and if you do not believe in the system it will not work all these theories are basis for inspiration and minor plans and can work only with your input.

2) How do you learn if you can learn analytically and remember routines than mystery is a textbook of knowledge but if you are more impulsive and fun you want to pick thundercat or style or Td or a variation of this extent.

3)This is a huge decision and must be taken seriously as your advancement and where you end up lies in this process so analyze your beliefs morals and goals.

4) If you have no confidence at all Mystey is the place to start as through lines and placebos you will become confident however if you already socialize quite well or with woman often than pick something that works more for you.

Now I think that everyone who has been in this will agree that there is no one method and that if you wish to achieve your maximum potential you will become a hybrid of everything be able to work any situation no matter what the occasion is.

ChowforNow,

the--------------------------------------->Saint

"Whether or not you agree with his harsh, straight to the point mentality, truth be told, he’s the most active/ dedicated / motivating member on this board. He’s routinely getting newbies and current members out sarging, pushing them into sets, given them suggestions and advice, replying to posts more often then anyone else. (Come out Wednesdays and you’ll see what I mean). Also, I have not once heard him making excuses about not going out and pussying out. If anyone else can show me this, I will automatically promote you to any status that you want on this board. (including admin).

Now .. I (and others) .. have tried a more sugar coated / feel good approach to getting guys to come out. Truth be told, it hasn’t worked anywhere close as well. I'm dissappointed that with all the free resources, and the cool guys that we have offering free advice, so few people actually make use of it, go out consistantly, and get better with women, instead of dabbling and keyboard jockeying."

"How did it start?Well, I dont know.I just feel the craving.I see the flesh and it smells fresh.And it's just there for the taking."

"Looking at my own reflection When suddenly it changes Violently it changes Oh no there is no turning back now You've woken up the demon in me"

"Only see, somehow it always seems that I'm learnin' or something I can never be It dosen't matter to me, 'cause I will always be that pimp I see
in all my fantasies I don't know your fucking name.So what?
Let's.fuck"

"Scrutinize every word, memorize every line
I spit it once, refuel, reenergize, and rewind
I give sight to the blind, mind sight through the mind"

Brand, yes, the train of thought that says the girl should feel honored to talk to you or to be with you means that YOU are the prize, not what's between her legs. That's why most guys don't have the confidence. You believe that the girl is the prize, the be all and end all of the interaction. False.

Nuked is right in what he is telling you.

You have to look at your inner game, your self-confidence, your frame. Basically, start with your self-confidence. You have to believe in yourself, as in knowing that YOU have worth and that the girl is at least equal to you, if not being of lower value than you, because YOU are the prize. You are the one that's social proofed, that's alpha, that's the leader, that's preselected. You are what she wants.

The different methods work for different people, and obviously the right one for you will depend on your style, on your personality.

brand, when you walk into a venue and you have confidence radiating off of you, that's an energy that the girls all around you will SENSE, and they will wonder who you are, which is GOOD. Then they start throwing smiles your way, EC, etc.

Welcome to the forum The SAINT.