Negotiate sex? Never.

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Not exactly negotiate. She either had to had the whole package (me - literally and metaphorically) or she got nothing.No 3th option like - SPAM talking but not being physical. Kind of radical deal. Based on the advice you gave me - this is the impression I get that you mean I had to do so.

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

I don't endorse ultimatums either.

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See, setting boundaries has absolutely 0 to do with being punitive (manipulating someone to do what you want them to do) which includes, of course, giving ultimatums.

While an ultimatum may seem to work in the short-term it only sews the seeds of discontent in the other person. Why? Because they're doing something out of an obligatory energy, which isn't the kind of energy you want them to be doing something out of.

So that means that you say that there was no better option (way of dealing with the situation) than the way I did?

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

Yes I totally agree with that. I never gave her ultimatums and always maintained the mindset that she is free to do what she wants and while we were in person usually that mindset dragged her back to me. However not with the same power as when she got home.

I was wondering just what your opinion is on the ultimatums - and I got it, thanks.

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

I don't like the way you handled it. Asking if she wanted you to come and stay with her in France. Telling her that it wouldn't be appropriate to SPAM with her. It all comes off as you trying to her to react in a way so she will try not to lose you.

When a girl breaks it off with you, you should put on a poker face no matter how much you don't want it to happen. They come back when you handle yourself correctly.

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Simply said do you mean I was manipulative by saying those things ?
You or some other forum members said there was not even a relationship, so there fore how she could have broke off with me.

Besides the fact that she calls me and and like communicating with me and never told me LJBF nor some shit like that (since this is the usual lines girls use with the break it off with a guy - based on multiple experiences I had before with other women)

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

Yes, you were being manipulative.
I've never called it a monogamous relationship.
She told you that she was off the market and you reacted like a guy that had been dumped for another guy.

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Yes I admit I didn't liked when she said it, thats why I decided that terminating the whole thing was better choice compared to see me cracking or sending some negative vibes if the conversation proceeded.

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

What you're failing to grasp is she was already done with the relationship with you, and you knew it. Lingering around and negotiating, OR trying to manipulate someone to continue on and THEN say you're done is far removed from having any sense of self-respect.

So, in the end, you did wrong to yourself by allowing it to continue past the expiration date.

With all my respect but I don't think you understood the whole situation. I admire your advice however.

I think there is some predisposition in the forum that everyone who posts a thread with a "problem" of some sort either has self-esteem issues or is being manipulative. That might be the case for many people, but not for everyone. Don't generalize please.

And here I'll argument myself (because if I don't I'll probably look like too arrogant... probably)
On the topic of manipulation - I didn't intended to manipulate her ever. Even when I told her what I said the last time, I still didn't mean to manipulate or trick her in order to receive selfish dividends for it. OK truth be told - yes of-course I want her to be with me, but life not always gives you what you want and most of the time one has to accept the reality. So it just felt the natural thing to do for me, however probably it looked to you (forum members) as a manipulation. Which I don't blame you for that - just different points of view.

Same thing with negotiating her or giving her ultimatums - I already explained that in my prev. reply.


And for that one - Yes I could agree to some extend with that, that my mistake was probably I was having imaginary expectations that were not realistic.

expiration date = the day she took the plane for home - is that what you mean?

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

I kind of hate this response based on your actions. Another guy came into the picture, you panicked, and you reacted badly. "Can I stay with you", "Don't feel obligated to let me stay with you", "I don't think I should stay with you"...all of these things are for reaction. It's to see how important you are to her, to make her feel guilty, and more than likely to get her to try and outright tell you that you should stay with her.

"We should stop talking because of your boyfriend" is a way of telling her that it's either you or the boyfriend. It's testing to see how important he is to her, or more specifically, is he more important than you.

These are responses from a guy that is grasping for straws and you would have been able to handle it better if you weren't blindsided. They are responses in which you are trying to hold your frame but at the same time not willing to let her go. It's okay because you were in a moment that you didn't know what to do. There's no shame. It's just a lesson to be learned.

I'm sure you're going to disagree with me and I'm okay with that. I've said enough on this issue.

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I don't disagree with everything - you have said many wisely things. Thank for you doing so. However I want to make stuff clear, so there is no misunderstanding.

"Can I stay with you", "Don't feel obligated to let me stay with you", "I don't think I should stay with you" - althought it might look like or actually be a reaction, which you perceive as a sign of weakness, actually it was more a way for me to figure out should I take the commitment to go ALLLL the way there. Since its not just going to the other part of town but 1500 miles away. I don't want go there and feel like idk why I'm there, that is why I asked her if it was OK. What was a better way to figure that out?
And btw I haven't ever asked her the second listed phrase "Don't feel obligated to let me stay with you". I don't know why you misinterpret some of what I said. Anyway it doesn't matter.
I understand that. I know it is not a good thing to force people make decisions and to make them choose between one or another.
And Yes I'm curious to see what her reaction to this is, but I don't necessary intended to do so I can see how she reacts. I know this a manipulative tactic that is why I don't like it.

In anyway something doesn't feel right if she is into RS and we keep talking/flirting late night online. Imagine if you were the guy she was dating - you probably wouldn't feel OK to figure out that she is talking late night with some dude that she met and had wild sex last summer, would you?
Probably she doesn't feel it like that but I doubt she remains negligible to the whole situation.
I obviously don't either remain negligible and I don't think any normal healthy person would (if it was his case).
I don't live in a scarcity mindset - I have plenty of friends, female friends as well, have opportunities to meet women.

I can't say that I'm the greatest PUA, but have some game to a certain extend - so it is not about me being desperate.

It is a bit more complicated than that - Things are not always black or white.

And definitely when it clears out I'll have a lesson learned. But until then have to clear things for myself.

I don't necessary insist you responding. I think we see things from different perspectives.

Thank you anyway for your time and advice.

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"Tell the world what you intend to do, but first show it."

OP, if you were going to france to visit friends, and some business stuff, why does it matter whether she has a bf? Just go to France. Stay at your friends. Conduct your business
Why would you look like a third wheel if you have other stuff going on there? In one second you say you had friends to visit and were visiting her AS WELL, then it sounds like you're going soley for her.

You were grasping at straws, you were trying to get a reaction. If for yourself you dont want to stay with or communicate with a chick who has a bf, that would have been it. It wouldnt have been you asking her, you'd just move on.

You're in major denial. Distance wasnt the problem. You talk about how you messed with girls just to get your physical needs met. You make this really sound like it was an open relationship in your head.

Alot of denial. You were going to France for this girl, not for friends, business or whatever. You carried on for a year like you were in an open relationship, not a long distance friendship. This is desperation, otherwise why you would you tie yourself to a chick in another country?