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ChocolatePUA
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:39 pm 
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OP came, got pages of advice and didnt have time to thank the posters who gave him advice or respond to the advice given.

I guess if he's that busy, maybe it's more him...not the wife.

Just saying

I see it different. Giving advice, or lending insight to something is a gift of sorts - its done out of meme noun energy, meaning as a true gift you expect nothing in return - or simply put its not a gift.

If you're doing it out of any other energy you expect something in return. Perhaps other posters gained insight, or the opinions expressed here affected them in such a way as to reflect on their own beliefs.

Regardless, whether or not the advice given has planted a seed or not in the OP's mind, the expectations of a "thank you" are a bit out-of-place.
There is always something expected in return for giving something. The difference is, the reward may be external (from someone else) or internal (from yourself). No such thing as "true" altruism in my opinion.

And yes, I absolutely think that if someone is willing to give their time, effort and energy, a thank you would be in line.

Possibly I was just raised different. My father still tells me "thank you "whenever I do anything for him, despite him, you know, feeding and clothing me for the majority of my life (I'm 30 by the way, so not exactly a young kid)
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n2thevoid
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:47 pm 
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OP came, got pages of advice and didnt have time to thank the posters who gave him advice or respond to the advice given.

I guess if he's that busy, maybe it's more him...not the wife.

Just saying

I see it different. Giving advice, or lending insight to something is a gift of sorts - its done out of meme noun energy, meaning as a true gift you expect nothing in return - or simply put its not a gift.

If you're doing it out of any other energy you expect something in return. Perhaps other posters gained insight, or the opinions expressed here affected them in such a way as to reflect on their own beliefs.

Regardless, whether or not the advice given has planted a seed or not in the OP's mind, the expectations of a "thank you" are a bit out-of-place.
There is always something expected in return for giving something. The difference is, the reward may be external (from someone else) or internal (from yourself). No such thing as "true" altruism in my opinion.

And yes, I absolutely think that if someone is willing to give their time, effort and energy, a thank you would be in line.

Possibly I was just raised different. My father still tells me "thank you "whenever I do anything for him, despite him, you know, feeding and clothing me for the majority of my life (I'm 30 by the way, so not exactly a young kid)

I don't subscribe to "shoulds". That's just ego.
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Dragula
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:49 pm 
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OP came, got pages of advice and didnt have time to thank the posters who gave him advice or respond to the advice given.

I guess if he's that busy, maybe it's more him...not the wife.

Just saying

I see it different. Giving advice, or lending insight to something is a gift of sorts - its done out of meme noun energy, meaning as a true gift you expect nothing in return - or simply put its not a gift.

If you're doing it out of any other energy you expect something in return. Perhaps other posters gained insight, or the opinions expressed here affected them in such a way as to reflect on their own beliefs.

Regardless, whether or not the advice given has planted a seed or not in the OP's mind, the expectations of a "thank you" are a bit out-of-place.
There is always something expected in return for giving something. The difference is, the reward may be external (from someone else) or internal (from yourself). No such thing as "true" altruism in my opinion.

And yes, I absolutely think that if someone is willing to give their time, effort and energy, a thank you would be in line.

Possibly I was just raised different. My father still tells me "thank you "whenever I do anything for him, despite him, you know, feeding and clothing me for the majority of my life (I'm 30 by the way, so not exactly a young kid)
I agree, thank you for your post.

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Style981
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:58 pm 
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OP came, got pages of advice and didnt have time to thank the posters who gave him advice or respond to the advice given.

I guess if he's that busy, maybe it's more him...not the wife.

Just saying

I see it different. Giving advice, or lending insight to something is a gift of sorts - its done out of meme noun energy, meaning as a true gift you expect nothing in return - or simply put its not a gift.

If you're doing it out of any other energy you expect something in return. Perhaps other posters gained insight, or the opinions expressed here affected them in such a way as to reflect on their own beliefs.

Regardless, whether or not the advice given has planted a seed or not in the OP's mind, the expectations of a "thank you" are a bit out-of-place.
There is always something expected in return for giving something. The difference is, the reward may be external (from someone else) or internal (from yourself). No such thing as "true" altruism in my opinion.

And yes, I absolutely think that if someone is willing to give their time, effort and energy, a thank you would be in line.

Possibly I was just raised different. My father still tells me "thank you "whenever I do anything for him, despite him, you know, feeding and clothing me for the majority of my life (I'm 30 by the way, so not exactly a young kid)
If this is true we all should be thanking Mystery and Strauss for creating this community.. But I guess that's not what happens right?

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n2thevoid
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:49 am 
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If this is true we all should be thanking Mystery and Strauss for creating this community.. But I guess that's not what happens right?
Expectations, dogmatic thinking (eg. "Shoulds", "musts" etc) and any other absolutist beliefs and thoughts can not only stifle most relationships but also be quite dangerous. Particularly when one follows them with blind allegiance.

Doing anything out of a sense of obligation is unhealthy, but most people will did this notion counter intuitive to what they've been acculturated to blindly follow .
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J.Daniels
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:59 am 
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If this is true we all should be thanking Mystery and Strauss for creating this community.. But I guess that's not what happens right?
Expectations, dogmatic thinking (eg. "Shoulds", "musts" etc) and any other absolutist beliefs and thoughts can not only stifle most relationships but also be quite dangerous. Particularly when one follows them with blind allegiance.

Doing anything out of a sense of obligation is unhealthy, but most people will did this notion counter intuitive to what they've been acculturated to blindly follow .
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n2thevoid
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:01 am 
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If this is true we all should be thanking Mystery and Strauss for creating this community.. But I guess that's not what happens right?
Expectations, dogmatic thinking (eg. "Shoulds", "musts" etc) and any other absolutist beliefs and thoughts can not only stifle most relationships but also be quite dangerous. Particularly when one follows them with blind allegiance.

Doing anything out of a sense of obligation is unhealthy, but most people will did this notion counter intuitive to what they've been acculturated to blindly follow .
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Definitely. And that's the point I'm trying to underscore here. It would help a lot of the guys on this forum have healthier relationships w themselves and women.
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ChocolatePUA
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:01 am 
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If this is true we all should be thanking Mystery and Strauss for creating this community.. But I guess that's not what happens right?
Expectations, dogmatic thinking (eg. "Shoulds", "musts" etc) and any other absolutist beliefs and thoughts can not only stifle most relationships but also be quite dangerous. Particularly when one follows them with blind allegiance.

Doing anything out of a sense of obligation is unhealthy, but most people will did this notion counter intuitive to what they've been acculturated to blindly follow .
You expect your girlfriend to have sex with you wouldn't you? If she one day decides that she's going to stop "because you shouldn't have expectations" of her but you should continue your relationship with her because she's your girlfriend are you going to be ok with that?

There are such thing as REASONABLE expectations. If I'm in a committed relationship with a woman I expect we will have sex. That expectation is not "dogmatic" or "stifling" but quite reasonable. Unless she is physically sick, busy, etc I can REASONABLY expect to have sex with her on a regular basis. I don't think that's unhealthy at all, do you?


Expectations are a natural part of life. The question is whether or not those expectations are reasonable.
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n2thevoid
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:20 am 
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If this is true we all should be thanking Mystery and Strauss for creating this community.. But I guess that's not what happens right?
Expectations, dogmatic thinking (eg. "Shoulds", "musts" etc) and any other absolutist beliefs and thoughts can not only stifle most relationships but also be quite dangerous. Particularly when one follows them with blind allegiance.

Doing anything out of a sense of obligation is unhealthy, but most people will did this notion counter intuitive to what they've been acculturated to blindly follow .
You expect your girlfriend to have sex with you wouldn't you? If she one day decides that she's going to stop "because you shouldn't have expectations" of her but you should continue your relationship with her because she's your girlfriend are you going to be ok with that?

There are such thing as REASONABLE expectations. If I'm in a committed relationship with a woman I expect we will have sex. That expectation is not "dogmatic" or "stifling" but quite reasonable. Unless she is physically sick, busy, etc I can REASONABLY expect to have sex with her on a regular basis. I don't think that's unhealthy at all, do you?


Expectations are a natural part of life. The question is whether or not those expectations are reasonable.
Expect? No. If she'd stopped (depending on the circumstance of course) I may or may not want to continue on with her.

Webster's (not the beloved little black kid from 80s sitcom fame) definition of expectation
1
: the state of looking forward to or waiting for something <The crowd waited in expectation for her.>

Again, expecting something to happen - living in a predetermined future. Why do that to yourself and the one's your proclaim to love and care about? Sounds a bit absurd to me tbh.

Expectations is where a lot of relationships falter - its a slippery slope to people keeping mental rolodexes of who did what for whom when, and when that person FEELS things aren't being reciprocated, then we get into something a bit insidious and destructive.
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DW-Heart-Charmer
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:05 am 
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Just to add on to JackZero's point, your version is textbook manipulation. She didn't do what you want, so you withdraw attention... if she cleans at that point it doesn't prove she cares about you, it proves she craves your attention.

Imagine if she came into the bedroom one night and commented that you hadn't fixed the toilet, then she told you she had a headache so no sex tonight. You'd feel manipulated, right?

Hell, maybe this is how OP ended up sleeping in separate beds in the first place...
It's influence. You can call it manipulation if you want, but the truth is in any relationship that you ever have you will be getting something, they will be getting something from you as well, or there is nothing. There will always be an exchange of value. There is nothing wrong with 1. Increasing your value as a man, IE making your sex game better 2. Communicating what it will take to receive any value it is that they want from you.

When you don't have the value they want that is often when they go somewhere else to get that value.

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DW-Heart-Charmer
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:18 am 
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Again Jack is close minded to any ideas not of his own, but for anyone else:
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Passive aggressive. Plus training implies that the person can learn. According to you, you can't teach her and everything that she has learned is already within her.
It's only aggressive, if you have a malicious intent. Again this is more semantics that Jack likes to nitpick.
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The problem is that they are not living as man and wife.
This is the big issue Jack has, it is either a relationship or a marriage or blah blah when you name things like this and make it such so that there are assumptions and limitions. What I am saying is that when you tell someone it is a marriage, you have the other person assume such things. "Well this is a marriage so this is how people are supposed to behave." Most guys do the same thing with gentleman. And they get it wrong because they misunderstand, "I was a gentleman. I opened the door for her and treated her with respect. Why doesn't she want to have sex with me?" Just by the man's misunderstanding of how gentleman are supposed to get women and act he has led himself to a place of false understanding. The same can be true when talking about a marriage. "Well I did all the things I was supposed to, why am I not happy." Maybe we can open our minds up to new distinctions. Let's define the marriage we want. Again Jack will say I'm contradicting myself, but of course that's what he does.
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I don't get you, at first you say no communication...now you say he can communicate now or go in the same direction.
Lol you can't not communicate. Again communication is the most important thing here. Verbalizing your problems are again stupid if you didn't get it.
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You expect your girlfriend to have sex with you wouldn't you? If she one day decides that she's going to stop "because you shouldn't have expectations" of her but you should continue your relationship with her because she's your girlfriend are you going to be ok with that?
Maybe the better way to go is communicate what it would take for her to be in your life. She will understand that if communicated and do what it takes if you are worth it.

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n2thevoid
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:19 am 
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Again Jack is close minded to any ideas not of his own, but for anyone else:
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Passive aggressive. Plus training implies that the person can learn. According to you, you can't teach her and everything that she has learned is already within her.
It's only aggressive, if you have a malicious intent. Again this is more semantics that Jack likes to nitpick.
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The problem is that they are not living as man and wife.
This is the big issue Jack has, it is either a relationship or a marriage or blah blah when you name things like this and make it such so that there are assumptions and limitions. What I am saying is that when you tell someone it is a marriage, you have the other person assume such things. "Well this is a marriage so this is how people are supposed to behave." Most guys do the same thing with gentleman. And they get it wrong because they misunderstand, "I was a gentleman. I opened the door for her and treated her with respect. Why doesn't she want to have sex with me?" Just by the man's misunderstanding of how gentleman are supposed to get women and act he has led himself to a place of false understanding. The same can be true when talking about a marriage. "Well I did all the things I was supposed to, why am I not happy." Maybe we can open our minds up to new distinctions. Let's define the marriage we want. Again Jack will say I'm contradicting myself, but of course that's what he does.
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I don't get you, at first you say no communication...now you say he can communicate now or go in the same direction.
Lol you can't not communicate. Again communication is the most important thing here. Verbalizing your problems are again stupid if you didn't get it.
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You expect your girlfriend to have sex with you wouldn't you? If she one day decides that she's going to stop "because you shouldn't have expectations" of her but you should continue your relationship with her because she's your girlfriend are you going to be ok with that?
Maybe the better way to go is communicate what it would take for her to be in your life. She will understand that if communicated and do what it takes if you are worth it.

Oh shit not you again
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DW-Heart-Charmer
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:40 am 
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Some people don't realize the negative impact that they can cause on a real relationship, but the thing about charmer is when he has to explain himself he always ends up contradicting himself. So if OP is still reading he will see that charmer is not giving real advice.
Just in case someone else besides Jack can get it:
I can't cause anything negative for someone in their relationships. It doesn't work that way. Just the same as I can't teach you anything. I can only inspire or give ideas. You or whoever it is, is responsible for their circumstances in life.

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JackZero
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:01 am 
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Again Jack is close minded to any ideas not of his own, but for anyone else:
Plenty of times on this forum that I have conceded that people have better ways to deal with things that I didn't consider. I'm closed minded to the stupid.
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It's only aggressive, if you have a malicious intent. Again this is more semantics that Jack likes to nitpick.
You have absolutely no idea what passive aggressive is. Instead of saying that I nitpick, explain the difference.
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This is the big issue Jack has, it is either a relationship or a marriage or blah blah when you name things like this and make it such so that there are assumptions and limitions. What I am saying is that when you tell someone it is a marriage, you have the other person assume such things. "Well this is a marriage so this is how people are supposed to behave." Most guys do the same thing with gentleman. And they get it wrong because they misunderstand, "I was a gentleman. I opened the door for her and treated her with respect. Why doesn't she want to have sex with me?" Just by the man's misunderstanding of how gentleman are supposed to get women and act he has led himself to a place of false understanding. The same can be true when talking about a marriage. "Well I did all the things I was supposed to, why am I not happy." Maybe we can open our minds up to new distinctions. Let's define the marriage we want. Again Jack will say I'm contradicting myself, but of course that's what he does.
It's sad that you have to redefine things in order for you to justify your statements. I'm not saying you're contradicting yourself here. I'm saying that your statements are absolutely idiotic.
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Lol you can't not communicate. Again communication is the most important thing here. Verbalizing your problems are again stupid if you didn't get it.
It's not that I don't get it. I'm just saying it's stupid not to verbalize. This guy has a problem with his wife turning him down for sex. We all know that it's a bigger issue to why they are not having sex. The question is what is the bigger problem? Even you say that problems are misunderstandings...and your solution is to work on sex game and taking away attention from her. Where does that fix the misunderstanding? How does it solve the underlying issues?
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Maybe the better way to go is communicate what it would take for her to be in your life. She will understand that if communicated and do what it takes if you are worth it.
LMAO. This is called an ultimatum and it's also verbalizing that he has a problem not having sex with his wife. This is when I point out that you contradict yourself.

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JackZero
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:02 am 
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Some people don't realize the negative impact that they can cause on a real relationship, but the thing about charmer is when he has to explain himself he always ends up contradicting himself. So if OP is still reading he will see that charmer is not giving real advice.
Just in case someone else besides Jack can get it:
I can't cause anything negative for someone in their relationships. It doesn't work that way. Just the same as I can't teach you anything. I can only inspire or give ideas. You or whoever it is, is responsible for their circumstances in life.
Interpretation: Please someone side with me

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