I'm starting to get bitter, and a little angry. And a little depressed.

The PUA community has been focusing a lot more on self-improvement lately. On being a better guy and the women will then want you. You've got Eddie Fews talking about abundance mentality, TheMajikalMethod talking about "being the King" and Kasabi talking about pull marketing. Probably more, but that's just the threads that have been running around in my head lately.

In another thread Dragula (aka PEBBLE) mentioned a book “Models: Attract Women Through Honesty” which I looked up. From the reviews it kind of goes along the same lines:

“You are then introduced to the theme of 'investing in yourself' - by investing in yourself, you reduce your 'neediness' and hence in turn become more 'attractive'. The principle is by actually having a voice, being who you want to be - you will actually find women who you want to be around, and more importantly you will most likely stand out around the crowd.” - (Some guy's Amazon review of the book)

And you know… the funny thing is, I think the first time I started feeling some of this bitterness was on a Facebook thread where a guy was saying PUA was crap because if you “just focused on you” eventually the right woman would be drawn to you.

It’s all the same message, and fundamentally it’s all probably correct.

It’s also incredibly frustrating for those of us who aren’t having any success.

Here’s the thing: I make six figures. I’m decent looking, although a little heavy. I’m a good guy, caring about others and shit. (Here’s where someone comes in and points out no-one who says they are a nice guy is actually a nice guy.) I own a house, I have a reliable automobile, blah blah blah. At least the basics.

So on paper maybe I should be good, right? Maybe it’s just my confidence that’s holding me back… but wait!

There’s a guy who posted a thread today. Bipolar, some mysterious mental illness that would “make us think he was a freak of nature” and posted this huge rant about how he hates women. And to top it off he’s afraid to even look at women! Has no idea how to start a conversation with one!
He’s slept with 20 women. I’ve slept with two.

Then there’s the homeless guy in NYC who beds a different woman every night.

Then there’s Charles Manson who had a “family” of 18 women he started while panhandling on the street. Because serial killers are, apparently, hot.

So I start to grow bitter, because how the fuck much self-improvement do I need before I’m more attractive than a homeless guy, a serial killer or a guy who hates women and has serious mental illnesses?
I think we see it a lot, really? Guys here complaining about bad boys getting the girl while we can’t… but I’m not sure “improve yourself” is enough of an answer.

Have an abundance mentality? I have nothing. I couldn’t even be congruent with an abundance mentality. I haven’t touched a woman in months, and I paid for that.

Be the king? Even when I approach women they are completely uninterested.

Pull marketing? Women have proven over and over again they aren’t going to buy me.

I think I’m mostly just ranting, and maybe I shouldn’t even be posting this. I do have respect for you guys, and I know that in the long run you are correct. I even gave up on a girl at Eddie’s suggestion… but instead of feeling stronger I just felt, and continue to feel, hopeless.

So I think, if there’s anything of worth in this rant, it’s that we need something other than being told what the “end game” is. Abundance mentality comes from having a lot of women. Being the King comes from walking into a bar and effortlessly seducing several women.

Maybe we need something more like stepping stones.

Because you guys... well, you're already there. And sometimes it seems like you don't remember how hard it was to get there.

I feel ya man I really do because I felt some bitterness before I learned this shit, but the thing is that the moment you're bitter towards women you're FUCKED. up the ass. with no lube. no joke.

The mind is a thing that needs to be controlled. If I could repeat that 1million x I would.

I don't care what field you are looking at; every successful person in any field is an individual who has learned to CONTROL his or her mind and block out ALL non-positive externalities.

At least 80% of the things you are telling yourself about yourself, you need to change. I.e. "I can't get a woman to talk to me." Change that to: "Women fucking swoon for me, why wouldn't they I'm the motherfucking man." Here's why you NEED to do this: See, women are MIRRORS. They MIRROR BACK TO YOU whatever you feel about yourself. So it is not surprising to me the results you are receiving. You need to change your internal dialog. Period.

BTW thanks for posting this man, thinking through all this helped me to straighten some shit out in my own mind. Much appreciated.

One thing to remember, and I hope this will ease your mind a bit, is that no one on this planet is perfect. Everyone goes through ebbs & flows, including every person on this forum, whatever level they may be at presently.

I know, and that's what scares me... but you know the drill: fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate... blah blah blah.

Then, again, there's that guy talking about how much he hates women but he's slept with 10x as many as I have.
This also contributes... you see the sentiment that men need to control their feelings so they can "be the rock" for women whose emotions are uncontrollable. (There was a better-worded quote somewhere I can't find.)

In fact, there's a LOT of requirements for being a man. And it seems like you're not attractive to women at all until you meet all those requirements. Even the conflicting ones like "take what you want" and "don't even look at a woman or you're subjecting her to the 'male gaze.'" I don't know, that's a shit example...

I think this actually goes back to my ex who was basically a feminist in that she thought men and women should be equal, but men should still fulfill all the traditional gender roles. That is, take complete care of the woman. Which men did because we believed women were inferior. So... yeah. I got to buy jewelry and expensive trips while she got to contribute nothing but occasional sex to the relationship then, in the end, tell me she was only with me to try and get pregnant.
But how? How can I believe that when they're off swooning for a homeless guy or serial killer and I'm alone?

I'm going through Chief's Seductive Introvert program (albeit very slowly) and he has a couple audio things that are supposed to help. One's hypnosis and the other is just supposed to be played in the background... they certainly don't seem to be taking though. I'm seeing two therapists, one EMDR to deal with some of the shit that happened in my childhood. I try meditating but I struggle with it and nothing really seems to help me feel more confident.

But I should be more confident right?
Glad this helped you at last. I hesitated to post... I was, and still am, worried it's just pissing off the people whose help I need.
Yeah, I'm not always this bad... but at this point I don't think I have any "peaks" which match this "valley." If anything I feel like I'm fighting a slow downward spiral...

You just do it. No one can do it for you. You go first in your own mind, and let the reality catch up. You have to picture the reality of who you want to be while selling yourself on yourself.

Just as an example when I go up to a girl, I feel fucking great about the future, I believe the interaction is going to go well, etc. It helps to play things like that out in your mind before they occur.

I had recommended to axe all the non-positive self-talk; quite alot of it appears in your reply. Think about dropping it. All of it. Immediately. Is it helping you? If not, then drop it.

Whether you believe you can immediately and completely drop all of the non-positive self talk or not, either way you're right.

Your first and most important order of business is what I mentioned above: You need to change your internal dialog. Period.

I think we've all been there. The truth is that it takes time to stop beliving these limiting beliefs. For your entire life you're told "You'll magically find that special someone," or "Women hold all of the power in relationships," or "You have to be hot to bed a cute girl." They don't vanish overnight.

The only way that they'll vanish is if you approach. It's simply the only way. Experience will eliminate "No one will be interested in me." Unfortunately this is difficult for some guys.

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First off, I appreciate the shout out. And I would apologize if anything I've have said has caused you to wallow into such self pity, but that would be me taking responsibility for your life now wouldn't it?


You don't develop managerial qualities after you become the manager. It is through you showing that you possess managerial qualities before you have became the manager that causes one to look at you as being worthy of the position.

You have to be "FIT" for it before you can given the title.

Seriously though.. How much work have you put into this?

How many months or years approaching women consistently(3-4times a week. 10-20 women a day) have you put in?

How much work have you put into yourself? How much have you invested into this?

What your missing is CONFIDENCE. Confidence causes a man to treat women as if he has a lot of them (even if it doesn't), CONFIDENCE causes a man to see himself as THE KING, and Confidence is what can get a HOMELESS guy laid on the streets of NYC consistently before a guy with a great job and a nice car without it.

You aren't acknowledging the differences between men and women. You expect a woman to like you for what you think she should like you for (your car, stability, you being such a good guy). You're not even taking into account that none of those things is at the reason a woman develops core attraction to a man. Those things can only help and/or amplify that which is already present. No one on this earth has to like you for the reasons you think they should.

You want to win, but you're not willing to lose to get there. Me telling you to get rid of a girl is training you to lose. You have to be willing to lose if you're going to get good at this game. You have to be willing to approach over and over and potentially FAIL, to be met with success. You're not suppose to feel good about losing, its not suppose to make everything better. Its suppose to train you to be stronger. Just as meeting yourself with physical resistance at the gym trains you to be physically strong. Emotional resistance trains you to be emotionally strong and it is emotionally strength that attracts women to their core. And based off you ranting and becoming bitter it couldn't be anymore clear that, this is exactly what you're missing out on.

Your worldly success didn't come to you just because you felt like it should. You had to go out there and bust your ass for it. And if you want emotional strength you have to go out there and bust your ass for it. Stop comparing yourself to other people. You have to do what you have to do for you, despite the success that others are seemingly having for doing less from your point of view. You don't know anyones story but your own.

You have to man up bro. Or just settle and be content with not having women. But they aren't just going to come to you because you want them to. You have to go out and do what it takes to make that happen.

Men are anxious to improve their circumstances, but are unwilling to improve themselves. - James Allen

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This shit isn't easy. I still get flaked and what not like everyone else. Back in the day it sway me to become a little bitter but then I kinda just saw sense into why the fuck should I be bothered if some girl in a bar flaked me?

Apparently the best soldiers were the ones that accepted they were gonna die so they got the closure with it. I kinda felt the same with this. It sounds pessimistic I know to think they will all flake but then the opposite happened for me because they can sense I don't care.

Keep it up. Do as Eddie suggests. You seem like a good chap

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While self-improvement is definitely incredibly necessary in attracting women self-improvement also includes acquiring traits that will help you become better at whatever it is you are attempting to become better at.

You went through all this bitching and moaning, but you never told us where you have issues meeting woman. Do you have issues meeting woman the daytime, nighttime, do you have issues approaching women, where are your issues with women?

While I am a very big proponent of self-improvement part of self-improvement is acquiring skills, such as communication skills like being able to talk to a woman, being able to read a woman, being able to send the proper body language, being able to interpret the proper body language, etc. besides that you also need to learn to escalate on a woman properly so that you do not overstep your bounds nor do you understand your bounds and not escalate fast enough to keep her interested.

Besides self-improvement you need to understand which skills you have in which skills you need to develop. Do you have any clue where you are versus where you should be? Do you have a Journal that is the most basic of improving at anything?

While I sense frustration I also sense issues with ego which also are part of self-esteem. While I can go over things that may improve your self-esteem perhaps you should seek out a source making you feel better about yourself because it's obvious that you do not feel good about yourself since you do not feel good about the fact that you've only slept with two women. Why does that matter? The question I have for you is what do you want out of pickup? What is the type of woman that you are after?

If you have not defined any of these things how is it you could say you're in pick up?

Confident people know what they want and go after it, the claim to be confident so do you know the answer to these questions?

Peace and love,

Vic

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Wanted to apologize for the lack of response... trying to absorb everything and force myself to take a couple steps forward before replying.

I did want to address this quickly though:

I didn't mean it like that! The wallowing in self-pity is part of a much bigger ball, that incident was basically just a shiny pebble in an avalanche. A memorable example of something that didn't seem to help. I pretty much stopped caring at all about the girl after a few days... (would have completely stopped caring if she didn't have one of the better racks I've seen in this city. )

Not enough. I honestly probably haven't approached 20 women total... I know I need to do that, I just can't get myself to. Often I don't even get to the point of chickening out, it's more like I can walk into a bar and see tons of cute girls but not find any of them desirable. Then when I do see one I desire, I either chicken out or take a long time working up the courage to go say something... at which point I'm so nervous that what I say is basically retarded. (A good example is an asian chick I caught looking at me at a polish festival, it didn't take me long to work up the courage but I basically opened with "hey, blah blah... clearly you're Polish right?")

A lot of the time recently I'm going out with a friend and he'll approach and I'm just following him into the set, but then frequently it seems like the girls friend has less than no interest in me and I have trouble even engaging her in conversation. I don't know if maybe they're sensing my lack of interest but it kind of feeds this "what I'm not even good enough for the 'grenade' feeling.
Some. Like I said I'm currently seeing two therapists. I'm trying to exercise more and eating better... the last two years have been really tough. Went through a bad 2-year-long breakup, and the girl was living with me and constantly sought to keep me just close enough that she could keep using me without wanting sex. She finally moved out in December and got (most of) her crap out in May, but basically I gained 30lbs, lost any good habits, lost my job (unrelated) and my confidence took an utter shit due to the experience and how long it lasted.

As for actual PUA I read a lot on the forums, I've done shit like the newbie mission and I'm trying to get through Chief's Seductive Introvert program; but some of the missions are tough in that you're supposed to try and get blown out, which I don't want to do in my city since everyone knows everyone practically. I could travel to another city nearby but don't have time, and frankly right now I'm not entirely sure my self-esteem could handle it SPAM.
But how can a homeless guy be confident?
Kind of, but not exactly. A better wording for my issue might be "Why do I lack the confidence of a homeless guy when I've accomplished so much? And why does confidence matter so much more than quality of personality (e.g serial killers getting chicks.)
Are there smaller steps? Basically, you don't just go to the gym and start benching 200lbs... you start relatively light and move up. Doing a ton of approaches or a blowout mission seems like 200lbs right now.
That's kind of where I started though... how much more self-improvement do I need to compete with a homeless guy?

Thanks.
None. I've only slept with two women; one's now engaged and the other is evil and I want nothing more to do with.
Thanks for the compliment.

As for embracing life... I have trouble with that. I feel like I lack any real passion about anything, especially lately. Last night I was telling my friend about the Hush episode of Buffy and I realized as I was talking it was the first time I'd heard any passion in my voice in longer than I could remember.




@poeticlyskuac Unfortunately I'm running late to something so I'll have to answer your questions later...

Sorry to sound like a dick, but this thread at 20 approaches under your belt is absolutely atrocious and it's kind of insulting to the work people have put in.

Your bench press analogy. Coming from someone who has 10,000+ approaches under his belt. Approaching girls simply isn't like lifting 200lbs. It's just one rep per approach. That's all. But to be honest. Using your analogy against you. You're not even in the gym. You just did 20 press ups once and then started to post of why gym is hard for you.

How can a homeless guy be confident? This is an ignorant comment. I have watched the documentary. He is homeless but to get warm shelter for the night, he will try it on with girls just so he doesn't sleep on the street. That's a great incentive. Can you not think of any incentives yourself? Like being happy?

You have a good writing style but your last posts are actually on the same level as redstar if you think about it. You simply are not doing what is required to get anywhere with this. But you're not even in the frigging gym. Wake up.

Come back to us when you're approaching 20 - 30 girls a week.

Sorry to sound harsh. But your situation is not new to me. It's down to you to earn your reps so that you can actually build muscle.

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Case closed.

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He joined in 2009

800 posts

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... And under 20 approaches.

In 6 years.

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