Been dating a girl for a few years.

Early in relationship we both used to have people we texted, beta orbiters on her end and girls on mine. SHE brings this up out of worry about these other girls, and we talk boundaries.

We set the boundary of no 1 on 1 coffee "dates" or bar "dates" with the opposite sex, and no encouraging of ppl we know are clearly interested in us.

No problems for well over a year or so. She might talk to one dude she knew WELL before she met me, that I have been introduced to and she doesn't hang out with alone. That is fine.

Secondly, a guy she worked with asks her to come out sometimes, and I'm invited. That is fine.

However the other night a girl texted me in front of her, and it was an old friend whom wanted to meet up with me and another old friend. My gf said she had to be there, blah blah blah. We had another talk about what we are cool/uncool with, and we both reiterated that talking for a long period of time for someone who is clearly interested in you is beyond the boundaries from here on, because it just looks bad/disrespectful, NOT because of jealousy

All seems well right?

WRONG.

I checked her phone (I know, bad to do this but I did) and some dude texts her pretty regularly from her work who she doesn't really work directly directly with. There is no flirtation on her end but on his end there is light flirtation and she just misdirects it for the attention.

In our last conversation she asked me how many girls do I text regularly, and I said none, out of respect for her. She also said none. She lied to me.

Now I am ignoring her a bit (she thinks because I called her a hypocrite) but what I really know is that she LIED.

What do I do fellas?

Why can't you tell her that you know she lied? I bet it's because you know you were wrong to snoop through her stuff and are afraid of the consequences for that.

You guys are in a psuedo honest relationship and both insecure. You pretend to trust each other but you really don't. If she trusted you, she wouldn't have had a fit. If you trusted her, you wouldn't go through her phone.

The problem for you here is that you know something that you shouldn't know. Either be up front with the information you have and how you got it or let it go.

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She said none because you said none.

And when she said none it is more than likely that she was "feeling" in that moment that she wasn't going to text anyone else regularly because you weren't. Her feelings changed.

And now you've got yourself wrapped up into a game that is going to be a challenge to squirm out of. This is why you shouldn't check her phone. You'll always find something when you look for it. And you've become addicted to "knowing" the truth because you now see that you can't trust her word.

How big of a deal is it for you? If its no big deal leave it alone. But you wouldn't be making this post if it wasn't a big deal.

The question becomes though.. What are you doing to do about it? If you're going to stay with her there is no point in bringing it up. If you're going to leave there is still no point in bringing it up. You would just leave. If you want to admit your wrong and call her out do so, but I can't promise a favorable outcome. You'll still be troubled about whether or not you can trust her word. And she will be troubled about whether or not you can respect her privacy.

What do you want to do?

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He did text her when I was with her, and it appears on her phone's lock screen. But that wouldn't allow me to know that they text consistently. I could call her out on that, since her phone is out in the wide open and for all she knows I could have seen this text.

Do you see why I am saying that you guys pretend to be honest with each other? You're trying to figure out a guilt free way of calling her out on this.

Both of you are enabling the other's insecurity.

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She is just incredibly insecure with no reason for it. Early in the relationship when we weren't an item i'd text girls, but beyond that I have never even hung out with a single chick. She gets jealous of like work events, friends I've had forever, and random girls. I never show any jealousy towards guys, I just call her a hypocrite because she has males that I've met and I've only ever called her out on behavior that I think should be a boundary when she brings it up.

She has no freakin clue I checked her stuff lol

I'm curious of how this allows her to believe that you are secure. You'll only tell her that she's crossing boundaries if she brings it up. That's probably why she is okay with lying to you. She knows how you'll respond.

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Not sure what you mean here.

What is the alternative?

What I mean is that it sounds like you voice boundaries being crossed only if she calls something out on you first. So why would she give you the information about this guy so that you can complain about it?

I gave you two alternatives already.

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But can't I read into her character from this? She is a liar in this scenario.

What's your point? Is it that you have a girlfriend that lies to you? You have a girlfriend that is a hypocrite? Now that you have the information, what are you going to do with it?

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good question man. I guess evaluate whether she is a quality person and move on if I decide no.

Jack, this is what I was talking about by the way. Situations like this.

Here is the deal, you want to trust her and be with her. You already know you can move on, we don't have to tell you that.

For that, man...You've already told her about boundaries and she crossed them. I read a post on here about the use of boundaries, and jack and I have been talking about handling arguments and people testing your boundaries.

Most advice posted in this thread already can not be applied in your case. You do not want to just cut her off, she's one of those people who are close to you that test your boundaries. After you make the boundary transparent she will respect it for a while, and then test it again, even if you are transparent in your desire that you don't want this to happen.

You think she is quality enough because you made her your girlfriend, and you are trying to control and fix these issues before they spiral out of control, so I won't tell you to just cut her off.

I will say this though, you need to evaluate why you think she is quality enough to be going through this. You clearly don't trust her, and for good reason...

She doesn't seem to trust you for no reason and as Daario Naharis said: "People who think like that, I find that they themselves are untrustworthy."

So think about what qualities she has that make you want to keep her around. Make sure you haven't just fallen for a warm body.

Now, if after you reflect on that link and determine she is a quality woman, then we address the problem at hand.

The trust issues, and her crossing boundaries that she knows is there. You are looking for a way to get her to respect your boundary, and make her trustworthy. Many guys hear deal with their boundaries being crossed by getting rid of the offender. If this is one of those hard boundaries that you absolutely do not want to be flexible on then most see the only way is to get rid of her. Because if she crosses it and gets away with it, it will become easier for her to cross it more and more.

There are articles written on this phenomena about how this is how career criminals are born. They commit a crime which is hard the first time, then it gets easier and easier to do, to the point where they don't care and it is second nature.

Thinking along those lines I wonder if past relationships can contribute to creating women who serial cross their man's boundaries.

Anyway, since that is not an option for you, you will not find any other advice in the PU realm to help you. PU teaches set the boundaries, be clear about them, and be willing to move on to the next once they are crossed intentionally by a woman, and make sure that she knows this is the consequence without a shadow of doubt.

You my friend are past that point, and there is no turning back.

But you still have hope. Jack introduced me to a non pick up book called "Thank You For Arguing" that doesn't teach you to "argue" in the conventional sense, but to win people to your side. And not in the spineless, respect-less, dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people sort of way.


For now, you need to let this go because it's building resentment in you towards her. Read that book and you will come up with an answer yourself because at the end of the day you want her, and you want her to be on your side.

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Look at it from a deeper level. They aren't arguing or testing each other. They are deceiving each other with the purpose of keeping the image of being trustworthy.

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Yeah I took out the part about him not wanting to admit he looked in her phone to give him some advice on how to bring her over to his side.

Do you think that he'll benefit from evaluating the woman's level, and if he still wants to stay to learn from the stuff in the book?

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"Keep your head up in the sky, you just a baby."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HccL8jUIIWU - Adoration of the Magi Lupe Fiasco