I have a friend who a lot of ppl say I'm better looking than and I've heard it enough that I should believe it by now. Ppl close to me I tell them all the time. That if they didn't know what I looked like, and heard me describe myself. They would think I was the ugliest person in the world. Now I know I'm not. I feel like I'm decent. I have ppl tell me I look like Ryan gosling pretty often. (I work as a salesman btw) But back to the point my friend has that confidence and that way to talk to girls. I feel like in all honest I'm not a bad lookin dude. But my confidence and self esteem are so bad that I just can't do anything not even approach. So what can or should I do?

So if I get this right you feel approach anxiety due to insecurities.

In that case the trick is to just open sets and tell yourself it is practice, which it is. Easiest sets to open are actually just guys with or without girls. To get over my AA I assumed a crash, burn, learn tactic. It helps me stay focussed and happy, because every opener feels like an achievement. Even if you fail to transition.

Make sure you smile and have fun, because to girls that is way more attractive than looks.

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--- MiDu

Man up.

Stop thinking your looks will do it all for you.

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Yo check this out, fat guy picks up chicks:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7PAYhmoKkA[/youtube]

Looks don't mean shit: when it comes to women it's all about what's on the inside.

I should know because I'm good looking too and I don't get fucking anywhere. In fact it holds you back - gives you a feeling of entitlement that repels women. You just gotta know your ace without ACTING like your ace ... maybe someone can explain that better.

First of all, that's a guy in a fat suit making a video to put on YouTube and profit from it. He already has all the confidence he needs cause he's NOT REALLY UGLY OR FAT.

Secondly: That's bullshit.

Looks matter. You all have to deal with this fact.

Yeah, of course they're making a profit. The burger man makes a profit every time he sells me a burger, doesn't mean the burgers don't taste good.
So? It's still the confidence not the looks that are getting him results. Doesn't matter where he got the confidence from.
I don't need to'deal' with it. Like I said, I consider myself good looking: if it all boiled down to just looks I'd be sorted. I wish it WAS all about looks: it's not.

You're entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately it's wrong

To each his own though.

Charlesfin bro

Surely you know a good looking chap personally that is useless with women?

I'm not saying looks don't help but evidently (especially on this forum, including OP) there is more to it than that. Like what about an attitude and confidence? I thought pick up has progressed past all this basic shit and has been done to death lol?

I had a friend who was 6ft 5, looked like a punk rocker, he would go to indie clubs and I personally witnessed an entire club of girls have a feeding frenzy of him but he just never found the balls to capitalise on the attention. He was so unconfident that if it wasn't for online game, he would be a virgin for sure.

Your posts are usually 99% spot on though, but have read some other posts similar to this that puzzles me.

Not at all saying you shouldn't work on your looks though, but what i am saying that working on your looks, confidence and overall package is where the results are at (in my opinion).

Love from your forum buddy though

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I've modified my post to remove your original that I'd quoted... simplify things.

I appreciate it, PEBBLE. You know I respect you as a member and contributor on here. I think your advice is generally really great. This is one thing I'm just not sold on (and that has nothing to do with you personally... it's experience based, and based on what I've seen here and in the real world).

I'm not looking to debate it either, really... Sick to death of this topic... And I really just think the whole 'looks are secondary' motto is a sales and confidence-building gimmick courtesy of the pickup community... After all, if coaches said "You're ugly? Don't bother then" they wouldn't get much business.

That's just my feeling on it.

Even a mimbo with no brain can score an 8. A chatty well-spoken fella who looks like a car just hit him can't score the same 8, most of the time.

I don't really want to delve into the debate but I edited my post as you posted your last one.

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IF this is true.. Why couldn't a fat guy who gained the same level of confidence pick up chicks just like this guy would?

I've never been ugly, but I've been pretty stocky and my lays have never changed, because my confidence hasn't.

And I have to be honest when I say that any guy who believes that a fat dude can't get laid truly doesn't have a decent amount of actual field experience. And/or is struggling with several confidence issues or insecurities of their own. Thinking that "theres no way a fat guy or less attractive guy could pull if i'm not fat/or ugly and still running into issues consistently pulling attractive women." or something of the sort.

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I have kind of a different perspective on this.

I think it's a trap being caught between the paradigms of thinking looks matter or they don't. I think truthfully the DO, that seems kind of obvious. However, it's not the be and all end all of pick up.

I think that some girls will sleep with you if you are their exact ideal type. They like a guy with long legs, brown hair, brown eyes and a good jaw. Or if you are a blonde surfer guy, or a hipster guy, or business guy. You get the idea. If you fit into the 'Brand' of what she wants then will have enough attraction to sleep with you. But it doesn't mean you won't fuck it up, or that you don't need a grounded personality, or that you don't have to lead. It's like.. having a headstart on a marathon. Helpful? Of course. But it's not enough to win you the race to the end.

Remember, it's NOT the physical perception of you that makes a girl want to sleep with you or not. It's how you make her feel. She feels a certain way around a guy that's her type which makes her attracted. And unless you are ugly or unhygienic, the worst you can be is at a neutral standing with most girls.

So if her emotional level is at a 7 when she's in your presence by your looks alone, and 10 is for her to abandon logic and go sleep with you, you have gotta game her. Even if she thinks you are really cute or handsome. It's just not emotionally compelling enough for her to bypass the logical barriers towards sex.

So in this sense, unless you are some how her niche fetish, you will need to game the girls you want no matter what you look like. On a deeper level, it has nothing to do with looks at all, but her emotions which she'll rationalize later.

This whole looks thing is so stupid and people are way to sensitive about it. We are men, come on. Isn't this exactly what girls complain and worry about? Do you think a man that's in his prime would worry about petty shit like this? It's so pathetic.

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Man's futile search for meaning, unity, and clarity in the face of an unintelligible world devoid of God and eternal truths or values. Does the realization of the absurd require suicide? Camus answers: "No. It requires revolt."

Here's my opinion as a guy who is trying to get involved in the community who is starting out with inner game issues because of his lack of belief in his looks.

I personally think looks do and don't matter. They will matter to some girls and they won't to others. The kind of girl you want to have a relationship, it won't matter as much, but to the hot girls that you just wanna bang, looks will probably matter a whole lot more. Confidence is key, every girl in the world will tell you that, a good looking guy who can't speak, look a girl in the eye or touch her, is probably going to come off as weird, put the girl in an uneasy state and that is that.

I just don't think that good looking guys on this forum should denounce or put down another forum member who doesn't feel that they are attractive for feeling this way. Feeling like you are ugly is one of the worst feelings you can have and if you have never experienced that, you're lucky. I've got issues from adolescence because I had an overbite and red lips. I was teased mercilessly for being a 'beaver' or for putting on 'my mom's lipstick'. I don't have an overbite anymore but I do have a somewhat crooked smile. My lips are red, I don't give a shit. But, the first girl I ever liked said she would never date me because I was a 'skeleton' and I always had to deal with snide comments like "Look at him when he runs, he's so lanky" etc. etc. It was brutal listening to girls talk about all the guys in my class they thought were cute and my name NEVER came up.

It can fuck a guy up. I'm trying my best to believe that looks don't matter as much. We are only dealt the hand we have. All we can do as either average looking guys or below average looking guys is get the best hair-cut for our facial shape, hit the gym to get the best muscle definition we can, take care of our diets, our skin, stay properly groomed, learn how to speak and compose your body language confidently then approach women.

But you are right that women have a deeper sense of dread when it comes to looks. A girl who knows she's hot an HB9 or HB10, probably isn't going to give a fat ugly guy her number, no matter how good his game is.. she's got male attention from a bunch of different sources. But, you can probably get a HB6-8 if you have quality game because chances are, she's insecure.

Having graduated with an honors in Psychology (okay, I lied, I was accepted and didn't go through with honors) and speaking with many people. We are all fucked up on the inside. We are all insecure about something. A beautiful friend of mine who is a girl is worried she will never find love because of her thick thighs and 'basic brown eyes'.

Please don't take anything I say personally.

This is showing your inexperience. There is zero difference between a girls thinking in a one night stand or a relationship. It's all based on the same emotional value.
Yes. This is why the friend zone exists.
You need to let go of this victim mentality homie. No one gives a fuck. Everyone has had a bad childhood, has been teased or abused by people. It's the universal story of growing up. You think you're important and your little victim mindest is unique. It's not. Get over yourself.

There are people dying of infectious diseases and hunger, thousands of children trafficked every day to work in brothels and sold as sex slaves.. This unrelated but you don't have any fucking problems compared to how bad it could be.

The first thing I wish people were taught to do when they learn about pickup is to shut the fuck up and get on with it. No one gives a shit. No one cares if you succeed or fail, you have to be selfish and do this for yourself.

I'm not attacking you. I used to be the same. I had intense shit happen to me growing up too. I know people who have been raped, or had been emotionally abused as kids, or even worse stuff, and they are fucking killing it.. because they don't post pathetic shit like this online. They just get over it gradually day by day..

Let it go dude.
Your problem is your attitude not what you look like. I can't even stand reading this shit. How is a hot girl going to perceive it?

Looks DO matter. There you go. Now what? Does that belief really help you?

If you actually did all of that stuff you are talking about you'd be in the top 10% of guys who are attractive anyway. This is something you aren't seeing because you're obsessed with your perceived flaws.
If the ugly fat guy obviously doesn't respect himself then very few women at all will want something to do with him. That's obvious. It has nothing to do if he's fat or ugly, but if he doesn't shower, brush his teeth or take care of himself it would be like fucking a diseased animal.

Again, these are just assumptions you are making. Go out.

I agree.

This whole post reads like someone who has never gone out and only read material online.

The real world works very differently than what you are assuming.

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Man's futile search for meaning, unity, and clarity in the face of an unintelligible world devoid of God and eternal truths or values. Does the realization of the absurd require suicide? Camus answers: "No. It requires revolt."

Nah, I don't take anything personally on here. This is a forum full of people with various theories, methods, experiences, and beliefs. We are all here for the greater good and I don't think anything you've said here is malicious or a personal attack.

However, I don't think in any way did I construe my problems as unique or that I'm a victim. I was merely speaking from a perspective that some guys are going to have going into the game. Some guys are naturals, alpha, with good looks, some guys can't talk to women but look great, we all have a different set of circumstances. Everyone has different coping strategies and things can stick with a person. I am who I am, I look how I look and I can only do what I can to make myself come across as physically attractive as possible. I'm not a victim, there are worse things, worse situations, in no way was I trying to convey a lack of being attractive or simply being average as the worst thing in the world.

I am trying to get over it. That's why I am here. It takes time to get rid of negative thought patterns, negative core beliefs. It isn't as simple as 'letting it go' and not thinking about it any more when you've conditioned yourself to think about it every time they look in the mirror. If it was as simple as letting go. This sticking point for guys like me wouldn't exist. You are correct though, you just have to bite the bullet, do it for yourself, accept that rejection will happen and that it can happen for a variety of reasons and get on with it.

I know looks do matter. It's still nice to see guys like Cajun and Style who are not very attractive still be able to do well enough to attract girls. Really hot girls, too. That's the hope portion of this community. If there was no hope for it, this community would be smaller than it is today.

I am doing all of these things and I don't know if it will get me into the top 10% of attractiveness. But it will set me apart from guys who don't do it or have let themselves go. Like I said, it takes time to change negative thought patterns that have been developed over years. One post on a forum ain't gonna cut it. But, I do appreciate the reality and bluntness you offer on the subject.

I haven't hidden the fact that I am new to the community. I had gotten into it a few years back then got into a LTR. That is over and I'm starting from scratch. You're right. In field experience will shape my thoughts and experience again. All I was offering was the perspective from the other side of the argument.