I mean, I'm not saying women don't like sex at all. But it seems like feminists are constantly exaggerating the degree to which women really enjoy it. I mean think about it, if a guy gets approach by a 9/10 in a club, he's not likely gonna say no, unless he has a girlfriend or something. But reverse the situation, and it doesn't really matter how hot the guy is, he's gonna get a hell of a lot more no's - what he needs to have is 'good game'.

So ok, that's fine. Girls aren't all shallow about the looks like guys are - they go for the complete package, looks, personality, confidence. Some guys are a bit like that as well, but let's face it, they're in a minority. Hell, you can even say it's a good thing women are like that but the fact of the matter is, women don't just like sex for it's own sake. There has to be an emotional connection. That's not so with guys. And this myth that women like sex as much as guys is as harmful as the myth that women don't like sex at all or that they can't orgasm.

Let's look at some of the feminist counter arguments:

- Women have to worry about physical assault.

Ok, this one is actually legit and I don't really want to argue with it. You can't just go back with a strange guy, he might be a rapist or a serial killer. Still, there's safety measures. Girls can tell their friends where they're going, they can insist the guy goes to their place. They can take a more social route so that the guy is not so much of a stranger. Also, anyone with background knowledge in self-defence or martial arts knows that size isn't everything.

- Women have to worry about pregnancy that guys don't have to deal with

True but (a) there's contraception for that. Hell you can go double dutch - condoms and birth pills. Ok sometimes people get drunk and do one nighters without contraception, I get it, I get it. But it's not like guys don't have their own unprotected sex concerns (STIs, having to pay child concern). In short there's risks for both parties, but there are also precautions. Guys are willing take those risks and smart guys will take precautions as well. Most girls, smart and stupid alike, aren't taking the risks even with the precautions, which indicates it's not really the risks they're bothered about. They just don't really want to shag.

- Promiscuous women get slut shamed

Ok, this is the biggest one I have a problem with. The two above are actually reasonable arguments. I can actually see those things from a woman's point of view. But this point bothers me. For one thing, just to state the obvious, WOMEN DON'T HAVE TO TELL EVERYONE THAT THEY'RE SLEEPING AROUND!

For another thing, though it's not like guys who go around getting rejected by girls are socially approved of. My self-esteem has hit rock bottom because I've been so long without a girlfriend. I used to be that guy who went to clubs and tried game on girls, and I just felt like a total idiot. Like the reason I was being rejected was because of my personality and lack of social expertise. I felt like a male whore who was going around getting rejected by girls I wanted to have sex with. My friends back then thought it was comical that I was still a virgin and laughed at my botched pick-up attempts.

I'm telling you, it's the male equivalent of slut shaming and it's just as bad. In fact, worse, because it's the 21st century and in educated circles everyone knows that being sexually promiscuous is acceptable and conducive to the liberal feminist agenda. What is not sympathised with are male sexual needs and this is because in the past beta males have put their own sexual needs above that of women's freedom (forced marriage). Of course neither of these things are acceptable. But it is considered perfectly acceptable to ridicule guys that are sexually inexperienced and if they complain about the way things are, then they are 'beta', they need to MAN UP and talk to more women and they just need to figure out how to do it the RIGHT way.

I have to disagree on a few fronts here. There are men who turn women down for sex. I agree it is probably not as often as it is with women. But then again the natural order of things is we hit on them, they don't hit on us as much. Therefore they have more opportunities to say no than we do.

Women like sex for the purpose of sex every bit as much as guys do. I can pretty well attest to that from all the women I pulled from same night lays for the sake of just sex, or the women I met online for the same purpose. However, there are all types of women as there are all types of men. Some have to have that emotional connection and prefer it, it does change the sexual dynamics at times as some men prefer it as well.

Some girls are every bit as shallow as guys are about looks. If you don't believe me I'll have to start introducing you to some.

I guess the bottom line to what I am getting at here and there is a yen and a yang for everything. There are women who don't like sex and women who desire it constantly as there are men in the same boat. There are women who desire the "total package" for love making and some who just want a hot guy to fuck them. "It takes all kinds" as my parents used to say.
I agree. I honestly told my soon to be wife how many women I have been with a ways into our relationship. Yeah that wasn't pretty.

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

I read this quickly but from what I understand, you're asking if woman enjoy sex in general as much as men do. The answer: No

Well, its complex. Women enjoy sex for reasons that are far deeper than the physicality of -penis in vagina-.
Some women do it for validation, for attention, to feel loved, and even sometimes for leverage in a relationship. They know the "power of the pussy" and they use it to their advantage. Its rare imo to find a girl who see's sex like a man does. Its so hard to find a girl in a club who will say yes right away like a man would and scream "fuck me" as you plow her in a washroom stall. Very rare.

Women like sensuality and they almost fuck with their souls.

_________________
Paul

"A man is the sum of his actions."

Point is, mate, you don't have women putting their egos on the line like guys, buying girls drinks, paying for sex, facing rejection and ridicule because your game's not solid enough. Girls that go to clubs and bars are being hastled for sex a lot more than the guys.
I'm not asking, I'm stating. And I'm saying that it's a harmful misconception that feminists are spreading.

Agreed, that is right they do not have to put themselves on the line. Men were created to desire women and go after them like a predator goes after its prey. You don't see the zebra chasing lions do to eat do you? It is just the natural order of things. So to your point Zebras you don't see putting it all out there on the line like Lions do, stalking its prey, making deals with nearby lion groups, and getting laughed at when they miss grabbing that antelope in full stride.

So again what's your point?

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Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

My point is that feminists are arguing the zebras like lions as much as the lion like the zebras.

I don't think thats a fair analogy. Zebras HATE lions.. Lion kill, devour, and destroy them. LIONS love what zebras have to offer (FOOD), but I'm sure if the emotional capacity allowed it, they'd hate the creature as well which is why they hunt and kill it.

I'd say women do enjoy sex more.. When I'm having sex with a woman, she is moaning in ecstasy throughout the entire experience. And even more so during the orgasm.. The man, usually is only moaning when the sex is over - his orgasm.

Who enjoyed a stand up performance more.. The person laughing hysterically throughout the entire show, or the person that just laughs at the comics closing joke?

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I think my quote has to be understood in response to JSmooth's social darwinism analogy lol

I think when we turn this into a battle of the sexes (lions chase zebras for food = men chase women for sex) like JSmooth has done, we can see that it's not a good analogy. That's especially the case if you're trying to argue that women like sex as much as men!

Personally, I don't think it's like lions and zebras because like I've said at the start women do enjoy sex but they don't like sex in and of itself. Generally speaking (like 90% of the time) there has to be an emotional connection and hot women don't like the idea of one night stands because then it's hard to maintain their social status as a high value woman that is hard to earn. I would go as far as to say that sex is actually a means to an end for women, and not an end in itself.
So if women go so hysterical over sex, why are WE the ones gaming THEM?

Why are we the ones applying for jobs that clearly need employees? Surely they should be knocking on our doors trying to find us. They simply advertise the position (High heels, dresses, make up) and we apply for position. Who benefits more.. The employer from our workload or us from the scraps from the top they're passing down to us.

Men also have a deep seated need for affection. How many men suffering oneitis or in the friendzone would happily give up sex so long as they get to keep the girl as their girlfriend? All of them. I see it all the time.

And once again,.. Who enjoyed a stand up performance more.. The person laughing hysterically throughout the entire show, or the person that just laughs at the comics closing joke?

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Now you're getting on to something:
Women benefiting from our labour surplus, it's not exactly something I'm disagreeing with.

So basically, either women are manipulative and exploitative

OR

they just don't enjoy sex like we do.

Whatever the system is I don't care. I just want to figure out a way to get the top. I want to be a player, I don't want to get played anymore. I'm tired of not getting sex, do you get me? Enough's enough, because every day I get more and more stressed out about this. I need to figure a way to get sex soon, and I'm not paying for it and I'm not fucking any old slapper. I need to get sex before it breaks me.

I figured lol.. And you're here arguing with guys who are clearly more experienced than you in this particular field. The men that think in this way often have the hardest time getting laid.

Get enough actually earned lays under your belt with some of some actual women of quality on the inside and you'll see where both me and Jsmooth is coming from.

This is your frustration speaking.. Me and J are speaking from the position of guys who are consistently getting laid.. Do you want to listen to yourself, or us?

You're not the first who shares the way of thinking - many of you guys have dropped by the forum and you know what you all have in common? You guys are all struggling to get laid. You need a new perspective; your current one is acting as a subconscious repellant for women.

PM me.. And i'll see what we can figure out.

Much love.

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I've tried changing my perspective but you know, it's like trying to develop an appetite for horse shit. I just can't accept the fact women are doing this to me. I'm trying to build a more attractive life style, looking after myself (I'm in pretty damn good shape actually), doing whatever it takes to keep my mind off women. But every day I just get madder and madder, eventually I'm gonna hit boiling point and then I don't know what's gonna happen when I do. I've got a pretty nasty temper all bottled up stewing and it's not getting any nicer. No offense, but I don't want to private message you just so you can try and sell me your product.
If that's really true, and women are either mind readers or stunningly brilliant readers of body language and pyschoanalysis, then what's also true is that they are not just interested in sex at a physical level (the main argument stated in this thread: it's about emotional manipulation). So again, you're proving my point.

My intent wasn't to sell you anything. I was actually offering you a free copy of the player handbook to help quell some of your frustrations so you don't do anything crazy. What you need is more along the lines of professional therapy than anything I can actually provide. And if you still want the book, its yours. PM me.

And finally before I eject..

Women act on intuition.. Your body is probably twice as good as mine, and you may even be better looking than me(or not lol). But I have had women in my life consistently since I was young kid.

Yes women need emotional connection for sex.. Most of them at least. They need their emotions involved to actually enjoy the experience. I never argued against that. I wouldn't call it manipulation.. I would just call it that they want the guy to actually care about them before they open themselves up to potentially get pregnant and carry a memory of him around for a lifetime. But once that emotional connection is there, I do believe they enjoy sex more than men. When its not, they just aren't having sex to begin with.

Men are getting laid.. people like myself, Jsmooth, PEEBLE, R.C. Charles Finley, neo87, Warpped mindless, Da, Mr.Assertive... Whats so special about us? You got all the external shit.. Your problem lies within your ownself, not within the women you are frustrated with.

It sounds like you read the manipulated man by ester and took it too far to the head. lol

I can't relate to you, but I feel for you bro. You'll figure it out.

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What do you think is the reason you cant get laid?

I mean, ask yourself and answer, why WOULD a girl sleep with me?:
1. Are you good looking enough that she will feel it's an achievement
2. Do you convey that you're good in bed?
3. Do you offer fun and excitement?

What do you offer?