Hey guys, I keep coming back to you guys as I am an absolute dumbass when it comes to getting anything with girls who are even attracted to me in the first place. So here's the story

1) met the girl on the first date - had some interesting conversations - I paid for a drink - we walked around looking for a bar, but it was close, so sat down on a bench...I did some kino trick (astrology handlines one) and she seemed ok with it, also mild touching here and there and she was fine with it. Asked her to come to my place but she said no, and said next time as she had to go and meet a friend. Fixed the second date on the spot (again won't make the same mistake again, made this mistake before making the last post so it's fine)

2) Date 2 - she said yes, no flaking, met her, paid for a drink..but in the end it blew up bad. I am listing down a few reasons which could cause it but let me know which one you think were the main culprits.
a) while paying for drinks, I said I will get the first one in a joking way. She seemed a bit surprised but didn't say anything.
b) Then we sat down in a bar, with a small table in between us. We started playing a game (I suggested) where we each take turns taking out one photo from our phone which is really crazy...Had some great laughs...in between I started Kino by holding her hands in between intermittently but she always took it away (the time before she took it away seemed to get shorter). She was also coming very close to me while talking and didn't seem to mind it, and there were a few places where I could've kissed her but I didn't go for it.
c) after some time, after seeing some of the photos, I went a bit closer to her and put my hands on her back and sometimes shoulders again intermittently. At some point, I saw her sort of react to it and sit up straight so as to keep the distance.
d) then she said, she wants to buy a drink for me and then she has to go. I tried to say a few things, stupid AFC stuff, like why, where and what.. I had planned a freeze out in my mind if this situation had arrived after reading the game, but couldn't go through with it.
e) I offered her casually that we can go to my place in between, and she said "what do you think we will do by going to your place?" . She asked me "what I was looking for" and I went blank. Seems like reading up all this PUA stuff has now completely thrown my honest guy game where in such cases I could answer honestly (transition phases are usually much harder)
f) finally, I could see there was no way we could continue in the bar as she didn't want to drink anymore and she didn't want to visit my place. So, we left.
g) towards the end, she actually said something which could possibly imply like a third date. She said something like "think about the next time and then hopefully see you soon".

p.s. I am not very physically attracted to this girl and taking this just as a training exercise. I realise this issue with my game that when I am physically attracted to a girl I become a nice guy and when I am not, I sort of don't care and become more aggressive. Funny for me, so far the "nice guy" thing with attractive girls has worked out more often than the aggressive guy.

If anyone made it through the long story, I would love to hear -
1) mistakes in my game
2) basic material on what to do on a date
3) suggestions regarding when to start kino and is there a way of doing more fail-safe kino ?

any help highly appreciated !!
Ric

_________________
The most important 4-letter word I learnt, when it comes to dating ---- "Next" ...

also, do you think there's any salvage from this situation...I sensed a possibility that she might go on a third date ?

_________________
The most important 4-letter word I learnt, when it comes to dating ---- "Next" ...

I wrote a lengthy response to your story then accidentally deleted it.

In short, you didn't use the appropriate type of kino in the appropriate location thus demeaning her, making yourself look weak, and making her feel uncomfortable. You also used way too much kino for a public venue. You don't appear to understand how kino works.

You came off creepy by touching her and continuously asking her back to your place. Honestly, the do you want to come back to my place line is hard to pull off even if you do AFC well. You flubbed that one. Then you flubbed it all over again on the second date.

You escalated way too quickly without properly priming her, thus scaring her in the process.

You also don't appear to have said AFC lines with actual confidence. (And I'd never try out the drinks line, that's a hard fucking line to pull off successfully, most jedi pua masters can't even do that one well.)

Judge her by her actions, not her words. She very clearly withdrew from you, just because she said something ambiguous doesn't mean she's still interested. (And then you made yourself look even more foolish by following her out of the place. That was a terrible terrible idea.)

In short, I think maybe you need to reassess your game and think about developing a different personality (or maybe reverting back to honesty) because this sounds like a fucking mess.

Yes, I am going to work very strongly on my inner game and initial dates personality. So, far I have only figured out getting dates. I know it's a mess, but I am 100% sure that I don't just want to go back to my nice personality. He's a boring guy and I am determined to take him out no matter how hard it is and how big of a mess it is right now. Afterall, everyone has to start somewhere.

_________________
The most important 4-letter word I learnt, when it comes to dating ---- "Next" ...

I don't get your point here exactly. We decided to leave together. What else could I've done here. I meant to say, I'd have stayed. Leaving with her communicates that you expected something or that she was the one who called the shots in terms of leaving. Generally, if you're on a bad date don't leave with the girl that makes it look like all the more of a failure. So I'd have assessed how cold she was, withdrawn, and gotten another drink. Take the mentality, she can go wherever she damn well pleases, you're going to get a drink and hang out for a bit. It's a good way of looking like you're in control again.

I meant to say, I'd have stayed. Leaving with her communicates that you expected something or that she was the one who called the shots in terms of leaving. Generally, if you're on a bad date don't leave with the girl that makes it look like all the more of a failure. So I'd have assessed how cold she was, withdrawn, and gotten another drink. Take the mentality, she can go wherever she damn well pleases, you're going to get a drink and hang out for a bit. It's a good way of looking like you're in control again.

ok, good point.

btw, I gotta ask you, is there any reason for being so hard on me ? I mean I know my game (or whatever) sucks a lot, but I know I am trying hard (not 100% otherwise I will lose my job) and hopefully, things will be better soon...

_________________
The most important 4-letter word I learnt, when it comes to dating ---- "Next" ...

Hard on you? A response to your questions is hard on you? If you can't take an honest assessment of your game - how are you ever going to do AFC well enough to f-close a girl? You either get good at this or you keep going home lonely. And as Yoda once said, do or do not. There is no try.

No, I appreciate your replies a lot. Just that I could use a few words of encouragement ... I know not very alpha, but it's harder for some people !

_________________
The most important 4-letter word I learnt, when it comes to dating ---- "Next" ...

Keep practicing and self analyzing without emotional attachment after the date and you'll improve. You should always have a justification to pull back at a sex location. You could have used any reason, such as I want to show you my music collection, let's watch netflix, check out my view, etc. Don't escalate for the sake of escalating. You should escalate when she is investing so you reward her. The more deep investment she gives, like talk about her emotional past, the more you escalate. Make sure to kiss her before the pull to se the precedent as well. Good job, she likes you enough to go for a third date it seems, go for the close next time you see her.

_________________
Elevate Your Game | Check out my blog for attraction and dance floor game advice!
willedward.com
-> PM me for Coaching and Personal Training <-

Thanks WillEdward...really appreciate your response. I got a couple of more questions...

1) For setting up a third date (not sure if it's gonna happen, but want to find out) what should I do ? should I just act completely normal or give some explanation (I know sounds dumb but sometimes I've seen it help) ? when should I send the message...

2) I also got a date with someone I really wanted to date for a long time this Sat...so, I don't want to fuck it up due to same reasons...any good tested comprehensive resources on the anatomy of a first date including kino ?


really appreciated !

_________________
The most important 4-letter word I learnt, when it comes to dating ---- "Next" ...

hey ric, you asked for a compliment. when i found out that you were the breath mint-meat guy, i laughed. i'm impressed with your resiliency. that's probably the greatest asset you need for dealing with women. I don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't strike out from time to time. So you've got the right mindset, there at least.

thanks dude lol..nice encouragement ! ...I have a theory... when you start something in life, when you want to change something in your life you are not happy with, you will always see a lot of failure...in fact, in the beginning you will see only failure...but a lot of people quit because they don't like failures...the feeling of never trying is much better for them than feeling of trying and losing...and I was this guy for a major part of my life but that needs to change now..

I know I have my issues...poor inner game, weird insecurities (breath mint - I laughed too later dude, but if you have ever followed paleo diet you will know what I am talking about), making moves too fast or too slow...not reading other people...not having enough material...but, I have still been with 4-5 girls (2 of them pretty cute) and have been asked around a few times as well....and I am working on all these issues and will eliminate them soon...

I know people (a few on this forum too) who have never kissed a girl...know people who bailed out on sure things or people who came on so strong..it was close to rape...all I did was try to hold her hands a bit too long which snowballed into a situation I wasn't prepared to handle...I am sure I can improve a lot and I am very hopeful !

_________________
The most important 4-letter word I learnt, when it comes to dating ---- "Next" ...

Its a cold world man these girls will eat you alive if you cant handle this be careful.
Yeah I got crapped on pretty bad for a thread similar to that lol.

Yeah, I agree it's a bit too hard sometimes - the feedback ! But still, I find it extremely helpful ! Before this I was always confused how to interpret things but getting feedback here really helps me analyze things properly and fit them in my long term game.


Update :- I messaged the girl saying " I was probably a bit over the line last night...but I still think we had a lot of fun and would like to see you again"...

she said..."yes, it was a lot of fun and see you when I am back" (she is going to barca for weekend)

So, seems like my read was right..I will get a third date for sure...she liked me but didn't want to move too soon...but nonetheless, she helped me learn fatal flaws in my game !!

_________________
The most important 4-letter word I learnt, when it comes to dating ---- "Next" ...