Guys lets keep the discussion on topic please. Some valid points have been made on both sides.

I like mostly what you said. Self amuse being a rsd principle that is amazing. I am always trying to add value and give however, my patience is on empty at times. Spam cold approach takes a tole on me. Something that PU offers is value, give, and so on. Something that is not stated enough is the importance of your time. The use of your time is so damn important. Things PU has taught me is to value my time so, yes, do your cold approach, spam away to the point of madness. Add more value as girls or women bite but, never tolerate people pissing around with your time. If a woman is flaky or even gives up lame excuses, I just do more cold approach. Things like day two or dates, if a woman suddenly goes distant or no contact leading up to that time, I assume it is off, and I go back to do more cold approach. You do not get that amazing spark or lightning bolts with every single PU and you are not suppose to have chemistry with everyone. I am curious about your thoughts on PU, on doing cold approach to the point of spam (which is again a simplification of absolute nonstop PU).

Have you did a boot camp? If so, with who and what was your thoughts? Was it worth it? if you have not did one, what would it take for you to do one? Personally, if I knew without a doubt, there was a plateau I could not get past myself, I would definitely go do one. The problem is that, I mostly pay attention to rsd but, the most recent events of the past six months or more have turned me off. For starters, the JB situation was uncalled for, Alex is gone, and what looks like is the best instructor there is not someone I want to be seen nor filmed with.

A few things I have to say myself about this now. Cold approach pickup is different from social circle type game. Both have crossovers, yes. The basics of being attractive will always remain the same. On the inner side you have confidence and self amusement, non-neediness and freedom from outcome, being "switched on". On the outer side you have strong eye-contact, strong body language and good vocal tonality, basically subcommunications. These are the things that will always remain the same no matter what situation you are in. If you want chicks, these are the subcommunications you want to harness.

However, maybe I should have phrased my title differently. I was talking about Cold Approach Pickup Game. This is what I refer to as "The Game", even though, yes, Game in and of itself is the game you play with women in all situations.

The basics of Cold Approach pickup are DIFFERENT to social circle type of game. For example, in cold approach pickup principles like showing plain interest are very common. Principles like the outer structure of a pickup and being able to pull with logistics that may or may not be in your favor is also relevant.

To say cold approach is inefficient is in my opinion not the right way to look at it. It may be inefficient for YOU, but for another person it may be much more efficient than social circle. Not all people are constantly expanding social circles at a rate that would allow them to meet many different people in a short period of time. Not all people are party animals, not all people enjoy large social gatherings. Some people just naturally feel uncomfortable in them. Cold approach provides a way to meet a lot of people in a very short period of time. What cold approach also does is it lets you learn a skill. It is a skill in and of itself, separate from social circle game. Like I said, there are crossovers, however cold approach, by nature, is COLD, whereas social circle game is WARM, meaning people you know may know the person already, or they are in your vicinity, you meet them through someone else. In cold approach part of the skill lies in making a connection with someone who you would otherwise never ever meet, whom you would never or very unlikely have a chance to get to know over a longer period of time. Cold approach requires that you display your personality in a short time, and therefore the display has to be rock solid most of the time, or at least it has to be persistent and consistent for the night.

Cold approach pickup teaches a lot of valuable lessons as well for further growth. It teaches to let go of outcome. When starting out all you want is a result. After a while you realize that wanting a result is hindering you from getting a result, and then you begin to have fun and "self-amuse", you learn how to "let go", you learn about state in a very very acute way since it is one of the main things you are trying to understand how to manipulate. You learn how to do this one thing very well, because you repeat it over and over again.

Cold Approach is a tool for "success". Yes I have started to let go of the word success when it comes to women, as this should all just be fun and games at the end of the day. We are no more than a bunch of guys trying to get laid. But, thinking in terms of success helps, too, since it is something that a person WANTS, and must then learn how to get it. Just like if you desire to play in the pro tennis league at Wimbledon, you first have to learn how to play tennis, and repeat it over and over again.

It allows people to train something very fast, gain a LOT of social experience fast in a "safe" environment simply because of anonymity, meaning social status is not affected if it is done outside of your regular social circle (you are not creeping out girls whilst you are learning how to be good with women), and therefore it allows you to fuck up a LOT, which is the only way to learn. This is coming from me, a guy who has had a LOT of social anxiety growing up, seriously a LOT. I did not step into a club until the age of 18 or 19, simply because I hated being around people and just didnt know what to do. I was a big loser to be honest, but now, at 22, I have very little anxiety, it comes back at times but I know I can handle the social aspect of my life now having quite a good grip on it, and if I slip I know how to rectify it. Sounds analytical, and to be honest I'm just enjoying my social life right now, but for a long time it was quite analytical. I learnt a shit load about myself because of cold approach pickup, have gained a shitload of confidence because yes, talking to strangers is DIFFICULT, but it empowers, and results come. I have probably not slept with as many girls as you because A) you are older and B) you started working on getting girls a lot earlier in life than me. You are probably more comfortable than me in social situations, at house parties, at clubs, etc. However as I progress I, too, am becoming more and more comfortable in many social situations. And a lot of this confidence I attribute to cold approach pickup, because it made me THINK very precisely about my social interactions and forced me to change behaviors and forced me to become confident, because without confidence there would be no results.

In terms of pure efficiency, you have to be careful about that. We are talking about a skill where the most results come when you are not thinking about efficiency. Guy goes out one night, about to approach, thinks "oh this pickup shit isnt as efficient as if I were to have house parties every week!" and ends up not approaching, drinking, going home alone, whereas if he just approached because, hey! he's out! and also there's a lot to be learned from every approach and this approach is getting him closer to a "result" whatever it may be (could be that the result is a gain in confidence, a funny story, a lay, a kiss, a number?, whatever) he may even just get what he wants. Who the fuck knows?

I personally prefer cold approach at times simply because there is 0 gossip about you in your greater circle (your close social circle like close friends probably know about you) and there is also no movement in your social status (if you fail with a particular girl in your group it's not exactly going to be awkward free), and also there is an allowance of failure. Of course you don't go in thinking you will fail, but you are at least allowed to so when it does happen, guess what? You can just move on to the next one. Once the skill is "mastered" per se or at least once you are in a place where you can regularly get girls from clubs, bars, libraries, streets, wherever, approaching the coldly, guess what happens to your confidence, your view on life, etc.? You believe you have power over your actions because you do, you believe you can just get another girl because you can so a single girl won't fuck you up for good, and you believe that you can learn almost anything you would like because you have just learned this and are still learning it. You respect yourself more because you are "pushing" yourself in a positive way every time (hopefully!), and you're (hopefully!) getting a lot of fun out of it.

But like I said, social circle and cold approach is different. You can't just say one is more efficient than the other. If someone is shit in social circle because he doesn't have his body language, eye contact, vocal tonality and therefore confidence down, he's gonna suck at cold approach as well. If someone doesn't have those in cold approach, they also won't have it in social circle (unless they drink maybe). I love cold approach man. It taught me so many valuable lessons and will continue to. Right now, yeah dude I'm just having fun fucking around, not really putting that much time and energy into it, but when I did I felt a lot more empowered than now in that area of my life. I had a lot more swagger, a lot more confidence, etc. because I knew I was taking action in this area of my life, rather than being more passive about it like now. That's why I even long to go out again. But hey, life right now isn't really providing a smooth path for me and I have a lot of other responsibilities.

Both have the same final outcome: sex. But one way of getting there might be more appealing to some people than the other. This is what makes it more efficient for that person. If you don't have fun in cold approach and social circle game works well for you, don't do cold approach! If you don't have a big social circle, well expand it, but if you aren't leading a lifestyle that allows you to constantly expand social circles and make new ones on such a regular basis that you are meeting many new people in a short period of time, do cold approach! (If you want anything, that is).

Though it is true that I mostly suggest social circle(especially for new people), I do find merit in smart/selective cold approaching.
What I think is a very bad idea is spam approaching, which is what you're suggesting in this thread.

And I actually suggest a very limited amount of cold approach for new guys. Hellhound sums up what I think almost perfectly here.
I agree, and still think so, even absent doing well via social circle. That was a major reason I replied to this thread in the first place. It offers advice for men who are demoralized from their hundreds or thousands of spam approaches, with limited success. And the advice offered was keep at it. You just need to work hard and labor through it.

No. If you actually enjoy spam approach, fine. Go nuts. Most guys don't enjoy it. Especially on the front end. What holds them back from success is not "caring about the outcome", it's that they aren't doing it because they like to do it. They have to force themselves ahead, because they hope it leads to sex and maybe more. That is what fucks them over.

So I will agree. If a man has no experience with women, and decides spam approach sounds fun, and he enjoys doing it, great. He should totally do that.

But if he's not happy, and doesn't like it, he shouldn't. He should find a way to meet women that he enjoys.

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RSDTyler

Yes I remember that thread.

It is important to understand personalities are different. What may require a lot of effort by one person may require very little effort from another person. A very extroverted person will most likely have an easier time socialising and getting laid than an introverted one, simply because socializing is more enjoyable for the extroverted person than the introvert. By definition the introverted person requires more energy to put his or her concentration outside him/herself and onto another person. The extrovert requires more energy to put his/her concentration within him/herself.

A person who has had a shitty troubled childhood in which he felt lonely, and possibly abused in some way or another or was bullied, is going to have a MUCH harder time socilazing and getting laid than someone who has had a loving family, friends and was never bullied but rather enjoyed a very social upbringing. Environment, genetics, and everything in between determines what a person is more comfortable in and what the best path to "success" finally is.

Which is why I dislike how PU sells, "nobody is caught from a different cloth" as well as dismissing looks mattering. Clearly, the goon who did fifty shades is going to get tons of vagina pics and free sex from tons of women now that he is a star. The samething happened to Robert Patterson according to a interview with him in a GQ or Men's health mag.
Agreed. The unfortunate thing about forums is that, it typically involves really strange and weird individuals posting theories from their mother's basement. Most times, they out themselves as kjs who do not go out. With that said, forums are usually the worst place for PU advice and information and companies are not much better since it is about monetary gain.

For a forum that has a picture of gambler at the top it appears no one has actually studied and applied stealth seduction.

I've studied Social Circle Game also. The forming and maintaining of them from Adam Lyons. Social circle game is not the warm approaching I was referring to.

What I was talking about isn't social circle game, but the simple act pre-approaching a girl before you go in and approach her. The warm approach comes from the fact that the girl has displayed an IOI before you bum rushed her.

It's the slight difference at the beginning which classifies it not as a cold approach anymore, she has "warmed" up to you and indicated to you that she is interested before the words are spoken.

Or she ignores you to indicate that you should go fuck yourself.

Either way, you get the information in an instant, and you can repeat this on every woman in the club without being noticed and losing your value.

Tr@veler I don't know about you, but since your advice can be summed up as screening for yes women, this seems 1000x more time efficient.

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

Yes, sure, however with this approach also comes a limitation. By all means go for forcing IOIs, I do it as well. However just because a girl isn't looking at you doesn't mean she isn't interested. Many times I have cold approached a girl, and she was "hard to get", meaning she wasn't indicating obvious interest, she was simply standing or sitting there talking to me. Sure, she was talking back, but it was cold in the beginning. I even went away, came back, and re-engaged her. Persistence is an 'attraction switch' in the girl. Just by spending more time with her you are creating that comfort. If you only use warm approaches, you are limited to the girls that are already into you. What if I want the really hot chick over there that hasn't looked at me? Do I not approach because it isn't "efficient"? No, I go over there because I want to. If I get "rejected", I can try again on the same girl. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Alex from RSD. He has a similar mentality of not approaching too many girls, but reapproaching the same girl a lot until she warms up to him and sees that he's actually a cool guy. This is why I'm saying that cold approach is a skill that in and of itself becomes more efficient the longer you do it, since you become more persistent.

Spam approaching has one main purpose: to calibrate to and to help you screen. I recommend true spam approaching if you are a beginner, or have gotten out of the game and are getting back into it in order to get used to it again. Once you are used to it you can fine tune your approach.

You didn't mention any of this in your original post. I'm 100% for calibration. I talk about it a lot on here about how I have an 8 path framework I use on girls. It now has 9 paths the newest one dedicated to the persistence game that I just learned from Justine Wayne.

I'm not familiar with anything RSD because they pegged me a low level PUAs who rely on law of averages. Which isn't game. I'll check out what Alex has to say, you sparked my interest and his teaching could probably improve my 9th path.

When I talk about paths it's calibration. I throw little tests out during the dance and her responses get categorized and allows me calibrate my approach to best fit her psychology.

The 9th one isn't really a path, more of an umbrella over the other 8. If she falls into the persistence category I still put her in one of the 8 categories, but then which ever calibration she falls under has to be calibrated for persistence game.

I didn't mention any of this because it's honestly too advanced for the guys this thread is dedicated to. That's why I stuck to basic IOI approaching. Your original post said to open, ramble, sexually hook, vibe, and close. Then repeat the process mindlessly, for the hours, not giving a fuck. A system for simple easy screening for women who are already interested.

There is no mention of calibration or persistence game. My original problem was this simple advice being called the real principles of game. When it is a huge time waste and not the most efficient way to screen for yes women.

Also on the calibration side of things (again which isn't mentioned) what if the girl is of the type who hates sexual tension and avoids sexually aggressive guys? The advice eliminates all possibilities of obtaining her. Regardless of how persistent you are.

The first time the word calibrate was mentioned was in my post.

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

1. When you're new, it will grant you the most failures, and the harshest blowouts. And to no good end, as your results will actually be lower this way. So you get more failure and less success.

2. When you're more advanced, it will actually fuck you over even worse. Because at this stage your skills are advanced enough to where she'll often be happy to keep you around and may even make out with you, right before refusing to go anywhere with you, and later leaves(after your wasted a good chunk of the night with her), never to be seen from again.

#2 is why value and attraction based game are so bad. They get you good reactions, but bad results.
This is a somewhat better idea than traditional spam approach, but still comes with the same root problem.
You're either trying to win over a girl who isn't into you. Or you're just wasting a lot of time hanging out with many girls in order to find one that was already into you, but didn't easily show it.
Winning girls over doesn't work.

So you're basically spending a lot of time with girls who are mostly not interested, just to find one who probably would have given you better signals if you'd pushed for them harder.

_________________
RSDTyler

I agree V but the thing is sometimes you want to get a specific woman and not just screen for yes girls all of the time. That shit gets boring. Which is why I added the 9th layer to my calibration framework. I'm talking from a more advanced perspective. I highly recommend new guys not attempting persistence game until they have at least been able to consistently get yes women without shooting themselves in the foot.

This game does have difficulty levels. Most guys play it on easy (screening for yes women). But, using cold approach for the screening process is like having a shitty weapon through the entire game. Making easy turn into hard, and hard into insane.

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

I don't agree.
Most guys in the PU community do the exact opposite and spam approach.
Screening for initially interested women is almost unheard of.

There's a reason I've taken up a jihad against spam approach, and it's not because there are a handful of guys who do it. They're a majority, and it's why most guys enter PU, and leave within a very short time, because they get nowhere.

If they were screening for interested women, they'd have success right up front.

_________________
RSDTyler

Most guys play it on easy (screening for yes women).

I think you misunderstand they way I'm saying this. They aren't intentionally screening for yes women, but this is what is actually going on. When they cold approach and try to run a framework of "ramble, sexually hook, vibe, and close - Be fun, bring the party, if she doesn't go with it fuck her, I'm good enough already and it's her loss" this is essentially a screening process. They are screening through the women trying to find women who will go with this specific flow, and then when the women doesn't, or offers resistance, they justify it's her problem in order to not make themselves feel bad. Finally, they move on to the next woman and repeat the screening process again until one agrees.

Theoretically they should have success if they knock on enough doors. Cold prospecting is what we call it in sales. Law of averages is the particular term. With this style there is also something called variance. So they might be only able to get 1 in 100 women. With the variance that 1 might not show up in the first 100 but maybe the second or third set of 100 girls he talks to. Then in the fourth set of 100 girls he gets 3 more. Then he goes another 1 or 2 sets of 100 before he finds another one. I broke this down in the sexodus thread. When I talked about the different levels of Pick Up Artists.

This scenario is what causes what you speak of. When I first practiced my Akatsuki Calibration Opener in the mall I had to force around 35 IOIs before I got the licked lips direct eye contact response I was looking for. Most of the girls gave off either "I'm not available, or approach me indirectly"

The 35 IOIs I forced took about 10 minutes. It was a busy mall and I was hitting every pretty girl with my new toy.

Pulling from this data I can confidently say that during the daygame environment at least... in the Dynamic situation where you and the girl are walking in opposite directions specifically at the mall, the advice of "cold open, ramble, sexually hook, vibe, and close - Be fun, bring the party, if she doesn't go with it fuck her, I'm good enough already and it's her loss" will fail most of the time. While you talk to one girl others pass you by and the one who may have said yes will likely walk by. Others will also see you getting blown out over and over which will cause that girl who may have said yes to become repulsed by you. So you have to work even harder. You end up like these guys making threads about approaching 600 times with no results.

Game has many variables. This bro talk cookie cutter shit isn't apex. People forget that the Alpha Males in the old tribes weren't the strongest brutes, but the guys who were decently strong and could gather 10 strong brutes and kill that one guy off. Intelligence. The missing link in PU.

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

Isnt warm approaching playing it smart? I mean, you have limited time. Also, in your example, isn't there risk of missing a better girl there every time you talk to any woman?

True. It's just a very slow one, that doesn't yield better results than much quicker methods.
I mean in the sense that making eye contact and moving towards a woman is a "cold approach", sure I too "spam approach". They last a few seconds most of the time.
Yes, I need high volumes of women for this too. But I can quickly determine all the women who are best to actually spend my time on, far faster than if I just wandered up to each one and started rambling.

_________________
RSDTyler