I just read a couple of headlines while browsing forum topics and it occurred to me the scenario of an ugly guy who is great chatting with women but always gets friendzoned by every girl.

Then I remember a newsletter discussing how much time and effort the ladies put into looking good; makeup, aerobics, clothes, jewellery etc and how they read magazines telling them how to make men long for them.

If we divide up PUA into the physical and mental aspect of game, which, in your opinion matters more?

Or do both aspects of Game walk hand in hand?

Thanks.

I think they both matter. I mean, you don't have to be a model, but having a good "outer game" definitely improves your "inner game".

What do you mean by "looks"

Are you talking only about your "physical" looks, such as facial structure, weight, height, etc?

Or are you talking about external looks in general, such as dress and fashion?

To me, the mental side is 3-4 times MORE important than the physical.

I'm not saying that looks aren't important, but an ordinary looking guy with the right mental state will do far better with women than a good looking guy who doesn't have the mental aspect down pat.

One should use everything to their advantage - good clothing, smelling good, white teeth etc. But mastering the mental is far more important.

There are plenty of good looking guys who don't get laid, and lots of average looking guys who do on a regular.

Looks don't matter as much as you think. Most guys are not good looking. Most guys have average sized cocks. I know a guy who has a huge cock, good looking and gets laid 3-4 times per month which is good but not amazing. He gets rejected non stop and I've seen it. Women really don't care that much as long as your not a disgusting hideous/grotesque man.

But yes, some women care about looks, but many/most do not! It's all game.

I believe it all depends on the women. Some care, some don't. I believe what is most important is taking care of yourself and/or being a renaissance man, as in, being a jack of all trades (good game, dress for your targets, be healthy, be interesting, etc.). I believe even Machiavelli covers looks in The Prince. He says that a man must not be too good-looking or too ugly.

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looks can matter 100% or not at all

looks are irrelevant - if anything they are a foot in the door

a girl wont fuck a guy with a guy with rocks for brains, she wants someone to connect with

its all about investment in someone

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Looks are the single most important factor in attracting women.

What most guys overlook is that it's a sliding scale. If you're a 3, you are going to struggle to bang other 3s. Because neither of you are physically attracted to the other. If you're a 5, you're still going to have a lot of problems, in general. You'll be banging mostly 4, 5s, and have to work your ass off to get even 6s, and you'll have something approaching a ceiling of 7s(within social circle - you can forget SNLs in clubs with 7s).

But, if you can hit 6, things open up. Once a girl thinks you're cute right from the start, you can get with her. A 6 can get a 10. Not as easily or as consistently as an 8 could, but he can. A 5? It almost never happens. It's a news worthy event.

Every point you can add, above a 6, comes with diminishing returns. Being an 8 vs a 10, from what I've seen, has much less use. Basically, once you're an 8 you're now "hot" and it's mostly everything else about you that girls are looking at.

tl;dr Great looks help over sort of good looks, but only so much. Average looks are an anchor. Below average looks are a killer.

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RSDTyler

In before someone posts about some friend they have that looks like Shrek and get's laid like a rock star.

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I strongly disagree to a point.

You may have more attention if you're good looking, but no amount of good looks can convert that into a lay.

And even still, unless you're extremely handsome, then those good looks won't make a noticeable difference at all.

We're not actually disagreeing at all.
What I said was: Looks are entry level requirement.

You'll never get a chance to have sex if a girl looks at you and thinks "Ew". And you'll be unlikely to do so if she thinks "Meh".

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RSDTyler

At least someone said it. Yes looks matter, alot. However the good thing for guys is the only thing you CAN't fix about your looks is your height and your face. I see tons of big dudes with bad faces dating hotties. That's why I will always emphasize the value of hitting the gym. Not only will you look better but you'll FEEL better too. More confident, more masculine, more energy, more focus, more stamina, more sex drive...the list goes on. Everything about you is except those two criteria (height and face) are changable

That's like saying "penis size matters"...if you're significantly below average.

Of course it does. If you're dick is 2 inches long then sex will be an issue.

Likewise, if you're seriously ugly, then picking up women will be an issue.

If you're slightly below average or average (which the vast majority of guys are), then there are lots of things that you can do to pick up women without having to change your features.

If you're handsome, or hot, you're fine. Handsome means having a good looking face. Hot can mean you're ripped. If your face is ugly and you're fat, good luck. If your face is ugly and you are buff, things open up.

In online dating looks even more matter. But generally the better looks you have the less energy you have to input to get a girl.