It can really help with putting your drinks on the table, ALSO...food, cutelry etc

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I've addressed this already but here are some examples:

(1) Easier to isolate, especially in smaller crowded venues that are table/VIP heavy (most of the top NYC places, for example)

(2) Easier to deal with cockblocking girls: it's much easier to pull a whole group to a table and then isolate at the table then to peel off your target

(3) Less crowded -- it's often the easiest place to go if you need to find somewhere a little less crowded than a jam packed dance floor EDIT: as pebble pointed out, there are other general comfort benefits.

(4) Less risk of girls leaving if they want to get a drink -- many girls drink and like to drink, it's usually not a big deal if they leave you for a bit and come back if they like you, but with a table the risk of them getting distracted/hit on by other guys on their way and back is basically 0.

(5) Less competition at the table --I know hunterfoxe has such good game that no one can compete with him and once he's talking to a girl there's 0% chance he will get AMOGed or shell see some other guy she likes more, but for us normal human beings, competition lowers the chances of getting girls, and when you have a table you can quickly reduce the potential set of competition more easily.

As far as downside? Considering you don't even have to use your table if you don't want, the only downside is financial cost, which is obviously important to most people but completely unrelated to whether or not it helps you get laid.

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Ok Fury, just received your PM. I will respond to your 3 points. There are no insults

1) Lifestyle vs Sex Providers. You used the celebrity/athlete analogy to attempt to debunk my point. i.e. The money and power of a celebrity attracts women. No shit Sherlock, but this doesn't mean you are sub-communicating the same vibes when you, Mr. Nobody, shower the girl with money and champagne. Do you think the celebrity Hollywood actor even needs to buy champagne to pull a star-struck woman? He already starts the interaction with massive high value. Whereas you start the interaction with equal value, then your value quickly gets lower and lower the more champagne you buy her and the more you raise her pedestal. She never believes she even has a chance with the celebrity because she puts him on a pedestal. She is never gonna put you on a pedestal just because you dropped $2k on a bottle. She knows that you value her more than you value yourself. She knows you are trying to impress her. She knows you are trying to buy your way into her pants. And she will milk you for it. And when I say milk, I mean your wallet, not your dick.

Just like RSD Tyler, I do make the distinction between buying a girl a $5 drink and dropping $2,000 on a bottle, I'm not stupid about it. I do buy girls drinks occasionally if the situation is appropriate. But I only do this if it is clear through my actions that I am not buying her affection.

2) The kind of clubs you go to are "table heavy" and therefore not buying a table puts you in a minority / a disadvantage. Sounds good to me. Women go for the guy who stands out from the rest. Not the guy who assimilates and copies what all the other guys are doing.

3) You make the point that I have never done tables, therefore I am not allowed to have an opinion on it. Well, I have never swallowed razor blades either, but I'm pretty sure it would be a bad idea.

I've never been to a club where there are more tables than dance floor. That sounds more like a bar/lounge to me, not a club. We are talking about clubs. Clubs are for partying and dancing, believe it or not. I can't imagine any girl wanting to spend all night, 10pm til 2am, trapped with some dude on a VIP table. Unless she is fat or disabled and needs to sit down. Whereas she will quite happily spend all night having an awesome time on the dance floor where the party is actually going down.

You should quote my points because not everyone knows what I wrote you...

As for point (1) Why do you assume showering a girl with drinks and buying a table are the same thing? You also assume I start with equal value, this is wrong. For example, If I have the best VIP table at the club with 4-5 hot chicks with me, I am starting at high value. Your whole assumption that she thinks I am not of value because I am not a famous celebrity is wrong. Not every girl values guys the same way, and it isn't just gold-diggers who value guys who are successful financially (another myth perpetuated by those without money).
Sure, you can succeed without a table at table heavy clubs, but it's easier to have a table. Again, you don't even have to be at the table, so you can stand out and do whatever you want that you could do without a table, and unless you have very solid game, it's much harder at top NYC clubs to not have the first impression of you be as a 'straggler' vs as a 'fun awesome guy'. Can you do it? Sure. But that's not the point, the point is a table just makes it easier. Also, see my response to JackZero about other logistical benefits of a table that are amplified when the venue is table heavy.
There are times when hyperbole makes for a good argument, and other times when it just doesn't work. This is one of those times when it just doesn't work. I mean seriously. Would you apply that logic to someone who has never been laid saying that sex is bad?

"Sex is bad"
"How do you know, you never tried?"
"Well, I never swallowed razor blades either, but I'm pretty sure it would be a bad idea."

Nope. Doesn't work.
Well, in NYC, one of the biggest cities in the world, the line is way more blurred than you think, and the quality of the chicks is higher in the smaller lounge/clubs than it is in the big mega clubs which have tons of disgusting trash and horrible guy/girl ratios given the door is too lax.

I would say that this is not uncommon in other places I have been as well, where the line is blurred, and the quality is higher in the smaller venue that is still clearly a club with a dance floor.

Also, who has to be trapped at a table the whole night? When I get a table I regularly roam around, but there is a benefit to having a 'home base' so to speak.

I do agree that the benefit of a table shrinks as the venue gets bigger, unless it's a major event night where the dance floor is too packed to move and everyone on it is just jerking off to some name DJ, then it's kinda nice to have a table.

Look, at the end of the day, I think you just don't get the argument here. No one is saying you need a table, or that a table is the only way to game. I am just saying that table game does work and it does have added benefits.

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I will give you #2 as a benefit, but the rest is pretty easy to overcome just by keeping the woman engaged. And even #2 can be overcome with either a halfway decent wing, a good personality, or making yourself appealing to the entire group.

When you say that you don't have to use your table if you don't want and the downside to not using it is the financial cost is confusing to me. It's almost like you're saying that a table isn't of any benefit. I'm guessing that since you have been defending the use of table game, you can't possibly be saying that now.

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Huh? Yes, I never said you need a table to get laid, I said it was easier, just like you don't need a car to get from West Hollywood to Santa Monica but it's easier in one. (Yes, I know, the benefit of a table is not THAT large). Sure, you can overcome all those obstacles, but they are easier to overcome with a table, which is kind of my point, not that you need a table, just that a table makes certain aspects of game easier.

The last point you are making, which I now understand, is a logical mistake. You are assuming that because I said A=>B that B=>A. This is logically wrong. I said that worst case, a table is the same as not having one because you don't have to use it. This does not mean that in ALL cases, a table is the same as not having one.

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1. Now you are adding pre-selection to the equation, so of course your value will be higher with 4 or 5 girls with you. I can do the same, but I don't need to waste $200 on a table to make the girls party with me. They just know I'm a fun guy and that's enough. Freeloaders can fuck off. Any woman attracted to my wallet can fuck off. I don't need the cheap sex.

2. You are talking about a niche of a tiny number of lounge bars in NYC and applying it to all clubs. I am talking about dance floor game which gets you laid in your overpriced VIP clubs AND in the normal clubs ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. The world does not revolve around NYC. Honestly, we laugh at the table guys in Europe. Those are the guys who stay at their table drinking from 10pm til 1am and wait until they're drunk enough to approach.

3. You admit you can still be the fun guy who dances near his table. So what is the point in actually having the table if you're just going to roam around and hardly use it? You can create a base anywhere in the club, you don't need a table.

4. Who thinks sex is bad? Majority of people think sex is good. The consensus in the pickup community is that buying a woman's affection doesn't work. So you are in a tiny minority when you say that a woman's affection should be bought with cash.

Let's get real. What attracts guys to PUA in the first place? They have spent years buying girls drinks, taking them on 4 or 5 dinner dates without any sex and they are sick of it. So, instead of telling them to stop wasting their money, you are telling them "No no, keep spending money, you just need to spend MORE, so she knows you really mean it". Uhhh... Ok?

Yes, in NYC, and in the US in general, having a table is preselection/social proof (what do you think I mean by getting a table, getting it for just myself?). It is what it is. I don't know about europe, never had a table at a european club.
It's not a tiny niche .. it's a lot of clubs with the hottest girls in a lot of major cities in the US, not just NYC. Again, no clue about europe, I have never had a table there and only been out clubbing a couple times in London where the fact that I actually go to the gym seemed to make it quite easy to get girls LOL... Could be table game is very different in Europe than in the US.

Also, when did I say dance floor game doesn't work? I said table game works also.
Again. Never said you need the table, it's just easier. It's a much more convenient base than a random spot somewhere in a crowded club, especially in table heavy clubs, and I can use table specific game if I want to, plus the reasons I gave JackZero etc. etc. NO need to rehash them.
I've addressed the consensus logic in my post Money and Pick up ..Buying affection and the attractiveness of a guy who is successful are two different things.
Nope. I didn't tell them anything other than this game has some benefits and that you shouldn't hate on every technique that requires having money. Guys who take girls out on 4-5 dinner dates with no sex have other problems with their game: it's not the dinner date or them spending money that's the problem. That's what guys fail to grasp: they have too much difficulty isolating the $$ they spend vs the game they are running.

Dinner is a good example: if you aren't getting laid regularly on a dinner date (even if it is the first date) your problem isn't the dinner, it's your game. You are either too passive, either begging a girl to get her out who isn't really interested, can't read that you are being used for dinner..the list is endless. The date is secondary to your game, though many dates have much better logistics than others. Tables are the same way: at the end of the day if you have solid game you'll get girls no matter what, but tables make logistics a lot easier and have other social proof benefits. Whether you have or want to spend the money on it is up to you, but it doesn't change whether or not it is effective.

Also, a lot of guys actually get into PUA due to a oneitis/friendzone situation and a multitude of other factors that have nothing to do with money.

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No, here's what you said: Don't blame your lack of clarity on me. That is a statement that says you don't need a table/money game to get laid at a club, which is the absolute truth. All a table is is an exploit. The problem is that it's an expensive exploit. If it works for you, that's cool if money is no object. But you can still get the hottest girls without spending a dime and keep them coming back for more.

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My response was to your earlier conclusion of this: It's almost like you're saying that a table isn't of any benefit.

Yes, I said 100 times you don't need a table to get laid at a club, but I said it often makes things easier. You still don't grasp the logic here so you should think about it until you get it. I even gave you an example: You don't need a car to get from West Hollywood to Santa Monica, but it makes it easier.

If you cannot see that what I said above that you highlighted only states that THERE EXISTS A SITUATION where having a table and not having a table is the same thing (not that they are the same in EVERY situation), then you need to think about it a little more until you see that, and/or read up about logic.

As for the last thing, sure it's an exploit, that makes shit easier to do if you have money. Just like a lot of game techniques are 'exploits', just like it's easier to get around LA by car than by bus, etc. etc.. it's just one that happens to cost money. Doesn't mean it doesn't work.

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The bus and car analogy doesn't work. We all know it's quicker and easier by car. But you don't get laid quicker with table game. Girls are not all like "OMG he has a table, I need to go home with him RIGHT NOW" at 11pm. Tables are no more or less efficient in terms of how quickly you get the girl into your bed. So why waste your money?

No. This is what we have been disagreeing about. In many instances I have found it is easier to get laid with a table than not, for all the reasons I already listed. At this point we are just going in circles. Plenty of arguments here for both sides that there's really not much left to say about it. I will throw it out there if you are ever in NYC, look me up and we'll hit some clubs w/and w/out table service so at least you actually experience it before arguing it has no benefit.

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I get your logic, but here's the problem I'm trying to say exists with it. There are going to be guys that are going to read what you say and are going to take it to heart when they run into obstacles, i.e. your obstacles when you spoke of benefits to table game. So when they read this they'll say that if I throw a minimum of 3 figures at it it'll overcome that obstacle instead of learning how to overcome them for free. It's leading to an AFC mindset.

You can use all of the analogous rhetoric that you want, it still does not make money game a better solution to getting laid.

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Yes, it's possible someone can misinterpret what I say or incorrectly interpret (despite what I said a bunch of times) that you need a table to get laid at clubs, but I'm not going to argue that a table doesn't help when I think and have experienced that it does just because someone might incorrectly interpret that as "I NEED A TABLE"

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+1 Agreed.

@Fury - You are spreading bad advice. If guys follow your way of thinking they are gonna start thinking in terms of limiting beliefs, like "if only I had more money, I wouldn't have this problem with women".

The other issue with your thinking which you still haven't addressed is the pedestal mindset. You believe that women are only attracted to you because you are financially successful. That means that before you started earning big money, you didn't feel worthy of a woman's time. So again, you are spreading the belief that you need to EARN big money to be attractive, which is unhealthy. I stress the word "earn" because that's what money game is at its core. It's the idea that you have to earn a woman's respect with money before you feel worthy of talking to her.