Ya know what the ballpark argument doesn't cut it ive seen quite a few fat ugly guys with girls who are out of their ballpark. It could probably be money but I am sure with some of them its game.

Rolling my eyes right now! Of course it's the money. I was a bartender for 5 years at 3 different places. No, girls don't date fat/old/ugly men because they have "game" OMG! Did you really think so?

see that's the thing, you're not only killing some people's hope but you're basically a troll trying to make people feel bad lol

but just incase people believe her, i know plenty of guys who i consider ugly, fat, and broke who have the sexiest girls...why? because of their personality, yea she might not be attracted to them at first but once he make her laugh, be there for her, treat her nicely, her has her lol

and again i've seen alot of fat ugly women with guys society would call attractive, it's about who makes you happy and who makes you feel special, not who looks good, because looks fade, rather quickly nowadays

and to be honest i NEVER see 10's with 10's or even 10's with 9's it's usually 10's with 8's or something like that

with that said, if you're fat i think you should work out, and get a nicer body but it isn't necessary like you're putting it lol

Hi Purple,

I appreciate your perspective. I think you are right to note that there is a gender double standard where guys think they deserve women without looking good, but that women ought to look good for them. But I think you overestimate how much your own opinion is generalized on all women. There are many women who really would go out with just an average looking guy if he otherwise had an attractive personality. This point is generally well researched in psychology. It's not just the delusions of ugly PUAs, but you can ask girls their opinions too. Of course, being as good looking as you can be definitely helps and a very good looking guy need not have to work as hard in getting a date, as your story tells.

No, I'm not trying to troll. I'm sorry if you don't like what I say. Would you rather see me lying and saying what you want to hear instead of what it really is?
You say you see 10's with 8's. Ok. That's normal. Do you see 10's with 5's unless they have money?
See attractive people (regardless of gender) have a wide range of partners to choose from. Why would a good looking girl/guy go after a person who is not so good looking themselves? Think about it:
Scenario 1: You have a woman who is smoking hot and wants to date you.
Scenario 2: you have a fat ugly chick who loves video games and is fun to talk to and you have a bunch in common.

Which one do you choose?

Yeah, the same for women. We don't feel attraction based on your spectacular personality. We feel attracted based on your looks as well. If you look like Donald Trupm the only thing that can get you laid is money.

Beautiful girls date handsome guys, handsome guys date beautiful girls. It will never change no matter what pick-up line you have.

If you know so many ugly/old/broke guys dating 10's why don't you ask them for advice? Or just watch their techniques? It's really interesting cause I've met a lot of people and I don't know any ugly men who have that great of a game to date gorgeous girls. The idea itself maybe alluring but it is not necessarily true.

No, I'm not trying to troll. I'm sorry if you don't like what I say. Would you rather see me lying and saying what you want to hear instead of what it really is?
You say you see 10's with 8's. Ok. That's normal. Do you see 10's with 5's unless they have money?
See attractive people (regardless of gender) have a wide range of partners to choose from. Why would a good looking girl/guy go after a person who is not so good looking themselves? Think about it:
Scenario 1: You have a woman who is smoking hot and wants to date you.
Scenario 2: you have a fat ugly chick who loves video games and is fun to talk to and you have a bunch in common.

Which one do you choose?

Yeah, the same for women. We don't feel attraction based on your spectacular personality. We feel attracted based on your looks as well. If you look like Donald Trupm the only thing that can get you laid is money.

Beautiful girls date handsome guys, handsome guys date beautiful girls. It will never change no matter what pick-up line you have.

If you know so many ugly/old/broke guys dating 10's why don't you ask them for advice? Or just watch their techniques? It's really interesting cause I've met a lot of people and I don't know any ugly men who have that great of a game to date gorgeous girls. The idea itself maybe alluring but it is not necessarily true.

One of the biggest bullshit in PUA is that jaded line that personality alone can get you laid. Nah.

As the OP says, women are as visual as men and that difference in visual attraction between men versus women is quite slim. I've created a Facebook account a few days ago for some work-related stuff. Guess what? The hottest women tend to look at your profile more when you have posted more of your good looking photos. The hottest women also look at your profile more when you have half naked pictures in there.

On the other hand, the uglies and fatties tend to be first in your InitialChatFriends list once you have deleted those photos and just let the power of your personality (humor in your About page, profile description, status, etc.) do the sarging for you.

To be an all-around good seducer, men should work a great deal on the physical aspects too. Work out. Groom well. Dress good. Smell nice.

When that's done, the PUA technical stuff gets easier. However, this does not mean that when a dude is ugly, he'll never get laid.

As an example, put an ugly/fatty in a room alone with a dude. Put some beer in there. Run up some porn movies and I assure you, the dude is going to fuck that ugly/fatty within three hours or so.

Women are the same. Put a hot woman alone in a room with an ugly man with a beer belly. Run up a string of porn movies. And tadah, I assure you, that woman is going get her pussy wet and fuck that ugly man.

Hence, when noobs learn to isolate women and make them horny, they'll get laid. But first, they have to learn how to approach women more efficiently.

Yes but most of you feel like you can change it if you say certain things and unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

That has to be the biggest crock of fucking shit I have ever read. If you seriously think you can put a hot woman in a room with an ugly fat guy with a beer belly and show porn movies and really believe she'll get all wet and horny, you are seriously fucking deluded man.