Quote:
[Do you want to meet halfway between your place and my place? Where the TItanic sunk?
I'll need to consult a satnav before I believe those co-ordinates
I literally
forgot about Greenland. Let's do this.
Your last post displays exactly what guys are supposed to be doing to get girls: frame control, leadership, masculinity.
And to be a heterosexual man on the receiving end of this from a woman is not only a turn off, it's extremely uncomfortable.
You have left me with nowhere to go in this interaction except a place I really wouldn't want to go.
I don't know how much you are familiar with the terms used in this community, but I will break down our interaction in those terms:
We had quite a lot of posts back and forth where we were entirely in opposition. I was pushing you and you were resisting me. That was fine, guys have no problem with that. Then I made this comment
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Face it Anime, Versalis is a lot cleverer than you. And his dick's a lot bigger than mine. But you still shouldn't suck it.
For whatever reason, that comment seemed to hit the right spot for you, as instead of continuing to give me shit, you showed evidence of wanting to create a rapport between us:
Except for the big dick thing. Let's start a fan club for it.
(but we won't suck it)
The wink, the use of the words "we" and "let's" indicated a desire on your part to get on the same team aka create a rapport.
I could have responded by giving you the rapport you were seeking. But given your previous behaviour both towards me and in the thread generally (being argumentative, making negative generalisations about men), I didn't want to make it that easy for you. So I posted this:
Don't wink at me. Go and sit on the naughty step.
This was the key moment where, to use the community's terminology, I wanted you to "fall into my frame" i.e. I wanted you to show a willingness to be led and to adjust your behaviour in accordance with my expectations. I asked nothing specific of you, but the fact I was ordering you around, combined with me taking a slightly parental role towards you, was to guage your willingness to submit to my guidance/direction in any shape or form.
Your response was:
Quote:
Go jerk it out with your bro with benefits Versace. He'll enthusiastically give you head, anal, and armpits and lie to you about the flavor. There's so much brotherly love on here.
This was the point where it was made clear you were not about to fall into my frame, and your desire to create a rapport with me was not strong enough for you to adjust your own frame in any way at all. I took this as a set back, but didn't give up entirely. I posted this:
Quote:
What I wrote was not intended as a rejection
Again this was to imply that this was primarily about you seeking my approval and to give you some inducement to "fall into my frame".
Your next comment about the Titanic was odd and definitely continued you setting your own frame. You then followed up with another comment giving me shit (that's fine in itself, but in the context of the interaction, I was expecting things to have progressed a little beyond that).
My satnav comment if anything was a step back for me, looking back at it, as I actually fell into your frame slightly i.e. allowing you to set the terms of the discussion.
Then the "let's do this" comment.
Making it clear to me that I have three options:
1. Buy into your frame
2. Invest a great deal more effort despite already giving you a couple of opportunities to respond in what I saw as the desired way
2. Quit
#1 is out of the question. #2 would be of questionable wisdom. So here we are.
I should stress that I'm not as calculating as this post makes me sound. I was in the moment as it was occurring, and I did enjoy a lot of it, but looking at it retrospectively, I'm just trying to explain why in my mind, it didn't go in the direction I wanted it to go.
People might have questioned the necessity of me prolonging our interaction as long as I did, but I did it because reading your initial posts, I got the impression you were a person of value who was just a bit lost in terms of how your interactions with others were playing out and why. So I wanted to help if possible (and again, it was fun a lot of the time).
This blow-by-blow (excuse the term, I know it's not to your taste) analysis is just to offer an idea of how your interactions with guys might be going in the real world. Most guys you meet will not break it down in the way that I just have, but that's what this community is for.
If our interaction is anything to go by, your interactions with guys are probably playing out the following pattern:
-Guy meets you, thinks you seem nice, intelligent, possibly attractive (we don't know)
-Engages in initial banter/flirting, takes a bit of shit from you as he expects is normal
-Senses you might be interested, begins testing your willingness to be guided and led by him
-Discovers fairly soon that you're not willing to be guided or led by him, that you will not modify your behaviour or attitude in accordance with his requirements IN ANY WAY, that in fact you will in time seek to be his leader
-Runs a mile
Ultimately though Anime, this all depends on who you are and how much you're willing to change. Some women just don't want to be led by men. Some (perhaps you?) are unwilling to be led by men because they've had previous negative experiences with men and think they're dicks basically i.e. they want to be led but don't find men to be worthy leaders. Some women are just naturally submissive and us guys love them, especially the Japanese ones
It depends who you can see yourself becoming. Do you act the way you do because you've had bad experiences with men? Or do you just naturally want to be the leader in a relationship? Because if it's the latter, you'll do great as a lesbian, but any man you have a relationship with will have to be fairly weak, not what we would call a man of value.
Yeah, I do spin it around, and that makes men uncomfortable. I guess what I want is for him to spin it around again. I'd be able to do it, so I assume they'd be able to do it. I actually meant the Greenland comment as a compliment, because it showed interest. You enjoyed yourself for the most part, right? I'm pretty good, because I'm creative, but I'd definitely make for a better guy flirt. I'd like to recycle my talents to attract men, instead of totally getting rid of them so that the guy can feel like he did better.
Hm, okay, the rest of the comments.
I took the "naughty step" thing as an actual insult. That was probably the point. You can see that it's natural for me to go back and forth like that: I can be defensive. In fact, I don't hone into flirting, and I can't tell when it's being done. I usually assume that it's not being done. I think men take it as an insult, and then I don't realize that that's what's being done until it's too late. Example:
I was sitting on a bench with my laptop, when a cute guy approaches me:
"Are you afraid that it's going to fall of your lap?'
"Hm, I've never thought of that before. I guess I have a pretty good grip, so it probably wouldn't."
"Well, I'm totally paranoid about it. I got something for my Mac to hold onto it so it doesn't slip-off (..)"
"That's a good point, I'll have to look into that."
I thought I was being recessive and smiley enough, honestly, and he caught me by surprise. I thought he was attractive, outgoing, and I love techies. I thought things were going well, and then he goes, "Well, pleasure to meet you!" Like I'd rejected him. He could have asked me for my number, honestly, I would have picked-up the phone.
I'm partially oblivious, and partially am not used to men showing interest. So, yeah. I'm unassuming, and very literal. I feel like the male race is out to make feel unattractive or something. But you didn't even realize that. I think more men on here should, ha, pick that up. A lot of women I've met have expressed the same opinion: they feel like men have a vague way of flirting, or rather, don't think they're flirting, and don't know what to look for. Genuinely, they don't respond to flirting, not because they want to be mean or shit-test or whatever, but because they don't know it's
flirting. You almost have to tell women that you're flirting with them. We don't assume. It's conditioning, because incorrectly assuming makes you look stupid.
Now, to be fair, I'm much less-aware than the average woman. So, so far we've got:
*I can't pick-up on flirting
*I respond to interest with interest, which in a guy's mind, "reframes" the flirting
I'm probably what you could call a "nice girl." I thought that I was "being nice," and you thought that I was "reframing." This is where it gets funny. So men don't like "nice girls" either. And I'm trying harder than other women I know, so just think about the missed opportunities. They're sitting around
waiting for men to "be nice to." And many of them are surprised that men aren't going on second dates with them. I think our whole generation was raised to be either forever alone asexuals or forever alone hamsters.
Sometimes, I'll get an epiphany in the shower, and be like, "Wait a minute... this guy was in love with me for two or three years, thought that I was yanking his chain, displayed affection, and I didn't think it was affection, and got mad at me." The reason that I didn't pick-up on his flirting, was that it seemed gender-neutral. Now that I'm older, I think I get it a little bit better, but at the time (these were younger guys), I definitely thought that everything was meant in a brother-way. Typical young-lady mistake.
Other than that, sometimes I forget that there's a thing between me and the guy, and I'll go into neutral mode. Like I said, I'm very creative, so I probably like to imagine frames. I have so much fun doing that, that I forget where I am
now, which is with a man. I should probably be with the kind of guy who pulls me back into reality, because I literally forget about reality. I forget that I'm flirting, even if it's good. I forget about genders. I forget about attraction. I seriously go into my own little world. Chick crack alert, I'm an ENFP, so it's always very tempting for me to imagine how things could be different. I have a natural curiosity: I see, and I imagine how the report could be different: it could go this way or this way or this way. I'm not interested in how it is right now, I want to see what happens. Or sometimes, if I'm chatting a guy up or he's chatting me up, I get way more interested in the subject than the guy. And then later, I'll regret it, because I am interested in the guy. It's like when you send a text, and the girl feels like she has to reply, even if she swore you off or whatever. When I get started on a subject I'm interested in, I have to talk about it. And I always forget what's going on, even if I really want to connect with the guy. Not being grounded in reality is a huge theme with me, I'll admit that.
I don't think I could physically be a Lesbian. I'd be a really bored Lesbian. Unless we just talked all the time, but I'd still be really sexually frustrated.
I need some food, so I'ma eat now.
CHAT
