How to deal with girlfriends addictive behaviors. Plz Help!



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:39 am 
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Guys, I am 24 and she is 24.

Been dating this girl for 5 months now and I have been noticing some additive behaviors and need some advice.

Here are her Vices:

1) Cigarette smoking (half pack a day average)
2) Alcohol (will have 2+ drinks almost every time we go out on weekends/weeknights, including dinner, bar life, sporting events, race tracks, anytime its available socially she tends to have 2+ drinks if not more)
3) Weed. I have never caught her doing this but know via her phone she texts a dealer and orders it from him one or twice a month. ******She also has no idea I know about this and when I asked her if she does drugs she told me NO.... to my face. An obvious lie.****

Why am I asking for advice?

1) I don't smoke at all. I have never smoked and never will.
2) I drink on occasion, and if I do its nothing more then 4 drinks in an evening. Last time I was drunk was over a month ago. When we go out to dinner on a weekend/weeknight she orders alcohol (most of the time a double) and I order water.

My question:

Am I over thinking things about her addictive behaviors? We have discussed these topics and she has been very open with me and wants to change (besides the weed thing) . Should I support her trying to overcome some of these behaviors? Or just accept this is who she is and its not going to change? Or is it really not that big of a deal yet? We have only been dating 5 months and we are only 24. Should I just live life and let her deal with her own problems and just enjoy the relationship?

Any help would be appreciated!

All the best,
Duke


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:46 am 
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You can't, not until she's ready.

You can leave her and if that's a big enough reason for her to change great, but also prepared for it not to be.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:18 am 
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Are her vices affecting the relationship? Is she getting sloppy drunk or smells of smoke? I mean, I dont get why this would be a problem in the relationship from what you've stated. All I got was you've never done or seldom do the things she does.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:05 am 
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Are her vices affecting the relationship? Is she getting sloppy drunk or smells of smoke? I mean, I dont get why this would be a problem in the relationship from what you've stated. All I got was you've never done or seldom do the things she does.
Borderline Personality Disorder is a very serious thing. I am in the mental health field and I know therapist who outrightly refuse to take any BPD clients as they're extremely difficult to deal with, more so than psychopaths in certain cases.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:51 pm 
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Are her vices affecting the relationship? Is she getting sloppy drunk or smells of smoke? I mean, I dont get why this would be a problem in the relationship from what you've stated. All I got was you've never done or seldom do the things she does.
There have been a few times where they have yes. The smell of smoke/her breath is constant and unattractive. She has been super drunk a few times and it has embarrassed me in front of friends and family.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:21 am 
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Are her vices affecting the relationship? Is she getting sloppy drunk or smells of smoke? I mean, I dont get why this would be a problem in the relationship from what you've stated. All I got was you've never done or seldom do the things she does.
Borderline Personality Disorder is a very serious thing. I am in the mental health field and I know therapist who outrightly refuse to take any BPD clients as they're extremely difficult to deal with, more so than psychopaths in certain cases.

Can you explain this more by chance? Not sure if she has a Personality Disorder, just a little concerned about her habits.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:44 am 
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Are her vices affecting the relationship? Is she getting sloppy drunk or smells of smoke? I mean, I dont get why this would be a problem in the relationship from what you've stated. All I got was you've never done or seldom do the things she does.
Borderline Personality Disorder is a very serious thing. I am in the mental health field and I know therapist who outrightly refuse to take any BPD clients as they're extremely difficult to deal with, more so than psychopaths in certain cases.

Can you explain this more by chance? Not sure if she has a Personality Disorder, just a little concerned about her habits.
Oops the BDP comment was for another thread lol

But w addictions you can't force someone to deal with it they have to come to on their own, and often it takes repeated attempts to get it. You can join a local group of Al Anon to get gain insight and support from fellow people in your situation. You'll learn about alcohol abuse through a disease lens (which I don't entirely agree with), and how to handle being w somebody at various stages of the addiction.

I believe its free and you can drop into a meeting whenever anyway go here to find one in your area http://www.al-anon.org


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:56 am 
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I'd say just leave it alone man.

It's only been 5 months.

BUT....

If the smell of cigarette smoke bothers you, tell her you won't kiss her anymore if she smells like smoke.

If she's embarrassing you when she gets drunk, record her with your phone so you can show her how stupid she looks later on when she's sobered up.

And as far as the weed goes... its just weed. There's nothing addictive about it.... She probably just is one of those chicks that likes to get high. I'm sure she can get pretty insightful and have some good conversations when she's stoned.

I know what type of guy you are and I'm sure you're just concerned about her well being (and you're not trying to be controlling) but you can only care about her as much as she cares about herself. Just enjoy the relationship.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:56 pm 
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I'd say just leave it alone man.

It's only been 5 months.

BUT....

If the smell of cigarette smoke bothers you, tell her you won't kiss her anymore if she smells like smoke.

If she's embarrassing you when she gets drunk, record her with your phone so you can show her how stupid she looks later on when she's sobered up.

And as far as the weed goes... its just weed. There's nothing addictive about it.... She probably just is one of those chicks that likes to get high. I'm sure she can get pretty insightful and have some good conversations when she's stoned.

I know what type of guy you are and I'm sure you're just concerned about her well being (and you're not trying to be controlling) but you can only care about her as much as she cares about herself. Just enjoy the relationship.

Ding Ding Ding!

If she does something you do not like, you CANT change her. But you CAN not see her or freeze her out when she does what you dislike. As long as Attraction and Investment are strong, she will change.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:25 am 
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Quote:
I'd say just leave it alone man.

It's only been 5 months.

BUT....

If the smell of cigarette smoke bothers you, tell her you won't kiss her anymore if she smells like smoke.

If she's embarrassing you when she gets drunk, record her with your phone so you can show her how stupid she looks later on when she's sobered up.

And as far as the weed goes... its just weed. There's nothing addictive about it.... She probably just is one of those chicks that likes to get high. I'm sure she can get pretty insightful and have some good conversations when she's stoned.

I know what type of guy you are and I'm sure you're just concerned about her well being (and you're not trying to be controlling) but you can only care about her as much as she cares about herself. Just enjoy the relationship.

Ding Ding Ding!

If she does something you do not like, you CANT change her. But you CAN not see her or freeze her out when she does what you dislike. As long as Attraction and Investment are strong, she will change.

Thanks guys I really respect both of your opinions and your posts have helped me a lot. If she behaves poorly i will freeze her out and come back to her when she is sober.

Thanks again for everyone who has committed!
Duke


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:17 am 
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I'd say just leave it alone man.

It's only been 5 months.

BUT....

If the smell of cigarette smoke bothers you, tell her you won't kiss her anymore if she smells like smoke.

If she's embarrassing you when she gets drunk, record her with your phone so you can show her how stupid she looks later on when she's sobered up.

And as far as the weed goes... its just weed. There's nothing addictive about it.... She probably just is one of those chicks that likes to get high. I'm sure she can get pretty insightful and have some good conversations when she's stoned.

I know what type of guy you are and I'm sure you're just concerned about her well being (and you're not trying to be controlling) but you can only care about her as much as she cares about herself. Just enjoy the relationship.

Ding Ding Ding!

If she does something you do not like, you CANT change her. But you CAN not see her or freeze her out when she does what you dislike. As long as Attraction and Investment are strong, she will change.
Here's why freezing out WON'T work. It's a form of punishment, and punishment says NOTHING about corrective behavior, other than the person is doing something you do not approve of. This is why in the realm of developmental psychology there's been a huge paradigm shift away from punishment as an effective strategy in child rearing. it does nothing to tell the child what behaviors ARE expected, or desired. More so, it instills greater anxiety in the child for fear of engaging in other behaviors that may draw the parents' ire.

I'll even go as far as saying it's a passive aggressive tactic that'll undermine the trust and safety in a relationship.

YOU CAN however state to your partner how their habit effects you, and collaboratively work on a solution. If he/she is not willing to do so and the behavior doesn't coincide w an important value of yours then it may be time to re-evaluate the relationship and your suitability for each other.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:57 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'd say just leave it alone man.

It's only been 5 months.

BUT....

If the smell of cigarette smoke bothers you, tell her you won't kiss her anymore if she smells like smoke.

If she's embarrassing you when she gets drunk, record her with your phone so you can show her how stupid she looks later on when she's sobered up.

And as far as the weed goes... its just weed. There's nothing addictive about it.... She probably just is one of those chicks that likes to get high. I'm sure she can get pretty insightful and have some good conversations when she's stoned.

I know what type of guy you are and I'm sure you're just concerned about her well being (and you're not trying to be controlling) but you can only care about her as much as she cares about herself. Just enjoy the relationship.

Ding Ding Ding!

If she does something you do not like, you CANT change her. But you CAN not see her or freeze her out when she does what you dislike. As long as Attraction and Investment are strong, she will change.
Here's why freezing out WON'T work. It's a form of punishment, and punishment says NOTHING about corrective behavior, other than the person is doing something you do not approve of. This is why in the realm of developmental psychology there's been a huge paradigm shift away from punishment as an effective strategy in child rearing. it does nothing to tell the child what behaviors ARE expected, or desired. More so, it instills greater anxiety in the child for fear of engaging in other behaviors that may draw the parents' ire.

I'll even go as far as saying it's a passive aggressive tactic that'll undermine the trust and safety in a relationship.

YOU CAN however state to your partner how their habit effects you, and collaboratively work on a solution. If he/she is not willing to do so and the behavior doesn't coincide w an important value of yours then it may be time to re-evaluate the relationship and your suitability for each other.

This is where using Tactics to get a reaction vs using Tactics because it is apart of your personality come into play.

I Freeze girls out all the time when they do something I dislike. It is not a punishment, I do it because I could spend my time with someone else who does not do things around me I dislike.

There are more than one type or use for Freeze outs. We have the Tactic where you intentionally ignore her to get a reaction or force a change. Then we have the freeze out where you make distance because you do it want to invest your time in her. There are more types of Freeze out's. Most of them guys use are Mini - Freeze Out's designed to build interest or punish.

If my GF does something I dislike and I know she knows I do not accept that type of behavior, I simply pick up other hobbies or allow more time for work. Things I enjoy doing. It is not passive aggressive if she already knows I disapprove of that type of behavior.

The problem with citing old Childhood based Punishment and Reward Psychology is one of the field taking a turn. Punishment is only deemed needed if the parent places a Demand on the child. And even when that is done, pushing the Demand several times and then rewarding when the Demand is met is superior. More so, the correct response now cited in Developmental Psychology is often that of managing your own emotions and appearing indifferent, or that of not feeling any emotional response to failing of a Demand.

This is further compounded when you place a suggestion on a person. When you suggest your child acts a way, the Indifference has a superior way of pushing the child to try and gain the reward.

The distinction is now being studied between the role of a Demand, a Suggestion, a Reward, a Punishment, and Indifference.

If you have a hard Demand from your GF, and you have the 'talk' about you do not accept it, then going cold, as you stated, is not the best way to handle it. If you Demand her to not drink then simply putting other priorities first or not answering as fast will come off as passive aggressive. It is shooting yourself in the foot.

But, if you suggest that she acts a specific way, and you prefer it when she does, simply not being around her when you suggest a behavior and she does not comply aligns with modern Developmental Psychology.

I admit, maybe I should have made the distinction of not Demanding the behavior and then going distant, but I figured that most of us do not have the 'talk' with women and we just frame the personality traits and habits we prefer. When she steps outside the framed traits we prefer that is when distance is acceptable.

It comes down to the type of Motivation used as the Reward for the action and the type of Punishment used. Here are the studies I have saved:

http://mofetinternational.macam.ac.il/j ... -Being.pdf

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/125/6/627

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 7BcU7FuBKM

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/128/5/774/

A lot of it depends on the actual Reward and it's impact and the use of Punishment as a shaping tool rather than an actual Punishment.

If a Freeze Out is used after a woman gets hammered, it is too hard of a punishment for the singular situation and it also is passive aggressive. That is unless a suggestion was already made, then the Reward system changes for the individual, and then you are simply removing Reward with the Freeze - Out, rather than Punishing her. It is a subtle distinction, but in Psychology the subtle differences in removing Reward to Punish vs Punishing in the form of discipline have vast differences.

What am I saying? A Freeze Out only works in relationship situations if the suggestion, not a demand, was made to change the habit. The Freeze Out is not a Punishment but a removal of Reward, which does help propel motivational systems to correct the habit with the persons own preferred Motivational system. If your GF does something you dislike, a Freeze Out done correctly only removes your Reward you give to her, which is praise, love, attention, etc.

If your concept of Freeze Out is that only aligned to Punishment and going cold until she figures it out, then it wont work. Only if she knows the habit is not acceptable and your Punishment is removal of Reward to force her own Motivational system to activate, will it work.

In respect to Game, this is the type of thing where you need to go out, mess up, and calibrate the tactic. You will not learn it over night, nor will reading a post about Freeze Outs explain why it works, it can work if done correctly.

In Game we set a lot of hard boundaries which are like playing with fire. Soft boundaries and boundary setting are far more effective, cause less relationship issues, as well as the correct 'Punishment' to go along with them differ as well. The harder the boundary, the harder the Punishment, which is why in relationships hard boundaries and punishments do not work, they go hand and hand. A woman may say you are 'taking away her freedom' or 'being controlling' which often means you either set unreasonable hard boundaries or punish her unreasonably.

I had hoped that my suggestion of 'Freeze Out can be a useful tool' would be taken at that, not something you always do, and also something you calibrate.

A real world example is my GF knows what behavior I accept and do not. I set my boundaries. When she messes up, like when she expects or does something unreasonable, I remove my Validation, Praise and Attention. It is not me Punishing her, it is removing Reward. By doing so she figures out why she messed up and she initiates a conversation how to fix it. The removal of praise and attention is a Freeze Out, but not the typical 'I will not talk to you for ten minutes' type of thing. She still can be with me. I just do not have my own Motivation to Reward her. Its a dual Motivational cycle.

If I did not remove Reward when she did something I dislike, that would mean that I give her Reward just for the sake of being with me. That would mean, to me, she being with me is enough of a Reward to me to warrant me Rewarding her with my time, energy, attention.

In Game, if you are a man of high Status, have other things going on in your life, and also have options, you should expect and suggest she acts in a way you like, and only Reward when she does. Game or no Game, I find that superior than trying to play with Tactics. Although this is by definition a Freeze Out, doing it wrong and not understanding why will mess you up.

Feel free to disagree. I just happen to think based on my research and education, as well as utilizing this in my own Game relationships are way easier. I feel I understand where the line between Reward and Punishment as a Motivational system exists and that is why I can use Freeze Outs. But if done incorrectly, you are right, it is playing with fire and can seem passive aggressive and not work.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:17 pm 
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^^^^

I'll have to read your response more in-depth later due to time constraints.

I've looked at the research you'd posted, based on intrinsic/extrinsic motivators as a means to rewarding 'good' behaviors, and extinguishing 'bad' ones. On the surface it is of course feasible to use this as simply an ends to a means, but unfortunately it is very dis-empowering to people. Why? It encourages them to look externally for validation; in short it perpetuates insecurity EVEN when it seems like a reward. I think a much more pragmatic approach is to look at the underlying need behind the behavior that is not being met (or being met in a maladaptive way) and figure out how to meet it so there's a compromise.

Again, if somebody is doing something I find offensive and I've conveyed that to them and they aren't interested in helping me with this then the question at that point becomes about wanting to stay in a relationship with somebody who acts in such a way.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:54 pm 
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^^^^

I'll have to read your response more in-depth later due to time constraints.

I've looked at the research you'd posted, based on intrinsic/extrinsic motivators as a means to rewarding 'good' behaviors, and extinguishing 'bad' ones. On the surface it is of course feasible to use this as simply an ends to a means, but unfortunately it is very dis-empowering to people. Why? It encourages them to look externally for validation; in short it perpetuates insecurity EVEN when it seems like a reward. I think a much more pragmatic approach is to look at the underlying need behind the behavior that is not being met (or being met in a maladaptive way) and figure out how to meet it so there's a compromise.

Again, if somebody is doing something I find offensive and I've conveyed that to them and they aren't interested in helping me with this then the question at that point becomes about wanting to stay in a relationship with somebody who acts in such a way.

I do not think we are disagreeing, I assume the conversation already happened of what you do and do not like. Then, if she violates, that's when I would just make distance because I do not want to be around her when she act's that way.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:31 pm 
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Here's why freezing out WON'T work. It's a form of punishment, and punishment says NOTHING about corrective behavior, other than the person is doing something you do not approve of. This is why in the realm of developmental psychology there's been a huge paradigm shift away from punishment as an effective strategy in child rearing. it does nothing to tell the child what behaviors ARE expected, or desired. More so, it instills greater anxiety in the child for fear of engaging in other behaviors that may draw the parents' ire.

I'll even go as far as saying it's a passive aggressive tactic that'll undermine the trust and safety in a relationship.
At best, that assumption is not clinically proven.
Quote:
YOU CAN however state to your partner how their habit effects you, and collaboratively work on a solution. If he/she is not willing to do so and the behavior doesn't coincide w an important value of yours then it may be time to re-evaluate the relationship and your suitability for each other.
What's clinically proven is that after several decades of marriage counselors advocating the "TALK", the divorce rate continues to increase. Meaning, the 'talk' in relationships is a massive fail.

On the other hand, nonverbal rewards and punishment techniques work well, not only among animals, but with humans as well. Checkout Ivan Pavlov and B.F. Skinner. They didn't 'talk' with their subjects to get the desired results.

In humans, it's the same. If you go when the stoplight says red, you'll get fined for a traffic violation. No talk, just action. If you fucked a girl real good, she'll cook you a nice breakfast. You don't even need to ask her to do the cooking for you.

Action.

NOT talk.

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