People write entire books about the subject. It's not as simple as giving you a few paragraphs on a forum. Your first step is to stop the mental masturbation because that is doing nothing to help you at all. Your next step is to back away from her a bit and start putting focus on other women. Once you've done that, you can start easing in to things with your original target again.

Yes, your doing something right... Your using kino to express your confidence and it's making her attractive. When you say you overstepped by using kino. I disagree, I think she was shocked by your show of confidence and then saw you in a new light.

You have to be prepared to lose!! I think your mindset is that if you do EVERYTHING right you can get the girl. It doesn't work that way. The mindset is try to do everything right and then...you win some and lose some. That is your bosses mindset. He's prepared for loss.

Also work on your inner game...be confident in making the moves. It sounds like your looking to her for validation. I bet your boss doesn't look to women for validation. He probably has internal confidence that he doesn't care. Think about it.

Both fair points.

I do have romeved some focus from her and game other girls every chance I get. Hell, I even gamed a girl I absolutely have no interest in just because she came to our office when we were both there. I am prepared to lose her, but I just have to make sure I cover all bases and make absolutely everything I can. I just don't want to look back and think "what if..."

I did not overstep using kino, she was always fine with what I did. I overstepped on the "be more sexual to break out of the friendzone" thing. They say you should introduce sexual topics in the conversation, she did that right from the start and still I ended up in the friendzone. That is just the kind of girl she is and it's one of the things I like about her. So, if introducing sexual topics is no longer an option, I escalated it to the less subtle "I'd do you" version. That is when things got awkward.

I do need to work on my inner game and I do make the serious mistake of looking for validation. I know I should not text as much, do not be so present, do not be so much of a "nice guy". I try to fight it but somehow I always end up texting her back and supporting her, all the time saying to myself "You stupid fuck. That is taking you nowhere". It's just something I have to work on.

Anyway, Update:

She posted a fb cover with something like "oportunities are like sunsets. If you wait too long you'll miss them". Probably just a coincidence, but I can't help but think she is sending me a message. Although that is a one-in-a-million shot.

Also, she and the other girl chatted again about the other dude in front of me. They had all the time in the world for that, they were at the cafeteria for more than 10 minutes when I joined them, and still that is when they started. I'm probably being paranoid, but it all seemed a bit too perfect. My target is already reverting to the old pattern of "they are all jerks with big egos". Well, if it's like that after one date and a few phone chats, hopefully it will crash and burn soon so I capitalize on the rebound.

As always, I'm open to sugestions on how to handle this.

The only possible chance you have of changing things and making her attracted to you is to exhibit attractive behavior. To do this you must alter everything you are doing in regards to this woman. Including your mindset. You must also be willing to lose her as a friend. Just remember this is a long shot at best and even if it were to work it will be a long and tedious process.


1.Attractive behavior is seldom that of the interested party. In other words stop showing interest in her. Treat her as you would any other woman you have no attraction towards. Maybe even a little worse. This will be difficult as your sub concious will still want to show the interest through your body language. So you must be consciously aware of this at all times around her.

2. Change her perception of you, this will not be easy but is a must. If you've been the sweet guy that seems way to nice and understanding. Stop it! Still be sweet and nice but only as a reward for her good behavior towards you. Develope an edge and a bit of an attitude, just enough to throw her off not enough for her to not want to talk to you any more.

3. Create a desirable you. You must change your look around as well as your personal life, even if you have to make it up. Create an exciting dating life, full of intetesting stories and crazy situations. The more fun you are having dating other women the better. If you cannot obtain this in real life then make shit up. Also show interest in other women at work or when around her. If she starts to show jealous behavior its a good sign but not the right time to make a move. Infact the only time to make a move is when and if she does. Thats right! your only move is to WAIT for her to make the move.

Unfortunately this may be your only hope and a slim one at that but if you are desperate and have the time. GO FOR IT!

Good luck

_________________
Seduce their mind and the rest will follow.

Thank you. That is more or less what I have been trying. The hard part is inner game and fighting the instinct to show interest. We are thought that you must treat a lady like a princess to get on her good side. So I know what you said is the right thing to do but it is so counterintuitive.

Time is not an issue. It's not like any of us is going anywhere só I 'll keep at it until I get her or find someone better.

All right. Daily update:

Today I overheard her saying the old line of "all the good ones are gay or taken". This time I literaly overheard it. I don't think she even knows I was just around the corner. On the upside, looks like she is not that much into him. On the downside, given the fact that I am not taken and much less gay, looks like I'm not "a good one"...

Anyway, the dude will be coming to our office next week to take care of some crap. Good chance to AMOG the guy. By what she said, I'm much taller than him, and she likes tall guys, so the visual impact of us standing face to face gives me the upper hand. But the dude is a fireman, I'm an office clerk. Even if I do have a more imposing phisique.

What elese can I do to be the alpha male?

Whatever you do BEE COOL WITH IT. Do not show insecurity, do not consider him a threat, do not be agressive. Make friends with the guy, give him a good handshake a simple "nice to meet you". Make some small talk and move on.

Thank you. As always, keep the good advice coming, everyone.

Update: Aparently things are not going too smooth. She complained she is alone and will be going out tonight on a single girls night out. Looks like she was kinda depressive today, bitching about how everyone is posting the same old messages about love.

I made a point of saying I already have plans. Unfortunately, they involve a bunch of lonely geeks and a deck of Magic the Gathering, but she doesn't need to know that.

Since she is kind of in a depressive mood, I was thinking about sending one of hose online cards with a message like "If you don't get anything else, at leat you have this one". Freeze over the weekend and let's see how things are in Monday.

Happy valentines day and feel free to throw in your two cents.

I wouldn't do the greeting card thing if I were you. That sounds like a huge neg more than anything, at least to me. You could give her a pseudo Valentine's Day gift by seeing if she wants to get dinner (or something lighter depending on how you think you stand with her right now) with you tomorrow, though.

I get your point. I mentioned this because another colegue of ours asked if she was having dinner with her boyfriend and she replied she wasen't because she did not have one. That is when the "all girls night out" thing came up. Adding to that her depressed mood. The idea was just to say "I'm still here, and I'm still intersted" without investing too much into it.

Also, I'm not asking her out. At lest for now. She has flaked on me a few times before and I put the ball I her court. If she hints at something, says she is bored or something, I'll take the chance, if not, I won't be begging for a date.

Here's the thing, though. You keep bouncing back and forth between asking "how can I get her? I won't give up" to "the ball is in her court, if she wants me, she can come get me". That's not going to work. You are for more interested in her than she is, and it appears that she has very little interest in you to begin with. It's you that needs to put forth the effort if you want things to pan out. In the current state, I can guarantee you that nothing is going to come out of this if you don't keep trying.

Yeah, precisely. The whole "don't chase, make her chase" and "do not show interest" are rules for stndard pickups, when you just want "a" girl, not "the" girl. It's a high risk high reward stategy, if you know what I mean, and if it does not work, fuck it and move on to the next. Some girls just need a bit more work. It may even be that she is testing you to see your comitment and separate you from the guys who only want a casual thing (I'm asuming you want something serious based on what you wrote). That is unlikely, but it may as well be. It happeded with my gf.

So be persistent and keep at it. But remember, there is a line between being persistent and intersted and being needy. Do not show neediness and do not let her overstep.

Even if she gets with another guy, it's not the end of the world. You think it probably will not last, in wich case you just have to be there for her when it ends. Maybe then she will prefer a more reliable kind of guy.

The friandzone is one hell of a good place to start. If you have the patience for it. Be her friend and with time that friendship may grow into something more.

Yeah, I see where you're getting. Asking her for something today was not an option. I went away for the weekend. Monday I'll see what's what. If needed be, we usually walk to our cars together and there are a few houses with gardens on the way so I may as well pick a flower right there on the spot.

Weekend update: yesterday when she was at my ofice and I was on fb I called her to show a post someone made with something like "fuck february 14th, I love you everyday". Last night she posted that exact same thing. Again, I am probably holding at straws, but I couldn't help but think... I was the one who showed it to her after all.
Also she shared a post with me with a joke about valentines.

New update:

The other dude was aparently demoted to "that guy I've been talking to". Still, I would apreciate some advice on how to AMOG him, just for good measure.

Also, she changed her fb cover for a pic on a sexy pose. Probably expected me to "like" it. Since I did not do it, she made up some story to show me that same pic on her phone. She also posted something like "one day you will think today is the day. But it will be night and I will already be sleeping". And every time we crossed at the hallway she used the chance to chat for a bit about some random stuff. Again, it is probably nothing, but I can't help but feel she is sending me a few hints...

I get a feeling she likes the atention I give her but is holding back for some reason, wich is really throwing me off balance. I mean, I have clearly shown I'm intersted, she has flaked, but has also never refused kino, in fact she is the one who is always touching my arm and chest when she is speaking to me, and we have very good chemestry. And now she wants me to chace some more, or what? Any other girl, I'd say she is shy and I intimidated her, but this one is very outgoing and kind of a pervert, so what the fuck is going on? Is it possible she is testing me somehow?

Guys, I hate to neg, but all opinions are welcome.

The other dude is pretty much out of the picture. Turns out she has lost interest. But still I need some advice on AMOGing. The logic is: she was never intersted in me (assuming the worst), but she was intersted in him. If I AMOG him, I automatically qualify as superior than a guy she was intersted in. Right?

We exchanged this texts today:

she - "Mr. X is strange. He just gave me an endless handshake"

me - "He got lost in the beauty of your eyes. Or he was wondering if he left the stove on "

she - "loool you're inspired"

me - "Inspired was if I had said you made his entire world freeze in a moment of pure perfection. That was in fact a very basic compliment"

she - "looooooooooooooooool you... love is in the air... between you and the copy machine xD" (private joke about the copy machine)

me - "Of course. Since you don't want to have anything to do with me I turned for the next best option. And just for the record, she is a very sensitive and caring copier "

she - "loool I'm all alone. Wanna go for a coffee?"

We never did because I could not leave my station at the moment and the rest of her group arrived before we could go.

As always, let me know your thoughts.