as much as i agree with you i know PLENTY of guys and girls who ruined there lives doing that....thats why im so hesitant, and most of them end up moving back in with there parents with horrible credit. i know only one guy in school who doing well with his own house and that's because he got it from his dad.

i heard the best thing to do is buy a house and rent out the rooms and the'll get you ALOT of money but most people are not smart enough to do that (i think i am) but just buying a house/ apartment is very expensive.

i did the math recently and kept it in my notes, the cheapest apartments where i live are $400 a month i found out if i work as much as i can with my school scheduled i can make around $600 a month, plus food and gas which is ATLEAST $100 a month and all the other necessaries of life such as water and electricity would make it atleast another $100 so thats my whole check plus some going to my rent basically, and that's IF my parents pay for school..........also the cheapest apartments are in the hood, and compton and chicago might be bad but imagine those places but with a little bit of country in them.

im probably making excuses but i don't want to be in a hole like my friends, i'll rather save up a year or 2 and make sure i have enough to afford one, ill then be 22 years old and if that's to late to get out the house then oh well

but ill probably still take that chance and who knows i might succeed and have a nice apartment at age 20-21...but im scared no lie

_________________
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

Majikal, god honest you are probably some broke low life who hits keys on a keyboard all day. You do nothing constructive, nor do you contribute to anything. Everything about you is negative, all of your advice just screams idiot. I can respect people who want to get their life started. Next year I'll be moving out. I surely don't have everything together, but I have a plan. Having no plan is what leads to failure, and what you're telling people to do is to go out in the world with no plan and fail. I can't condone such stupid and foolish advice.

Having a plan before moving is essential. No amount of macho man changes this. The difference between those who achieve success and those who lack it, is a plan. The difference between a General and Private is that the General moves with the a plan. The private just moves when life requires him to. Right now, you're argument is that everyone should be a private and that no one should be a general. I thought the purpose of pick up was for every man to become the general of his own destiny.

You're smart. At the age of 22, it's dumb to move out without a college degree or trade. You won't make it. I've seen so many people move back in their parent's place WITH KIDS. The best thing you can do is make a plan, and leave when the plan requires. Everyone I believe, should leave at around the age of 24-26. No one should be living with their parents out of free will over the age of 27. That's plenty of time to graduate with a degree, find a job, save up, and move out of your folks house. I don't get the rush some people have.

You love the personal attacks, don't you princess? Don't act like you know me...

And as far as a "plan," that's great and all. Make your little plans. But clearly you still live off of mommy and daddy. You don't know what real life is like. You will soon find out that your "plan" doesn't mean shit. You're going to notice that life will throw curveballs your way and put wrenches into your little "plan." Unless you develop the ability to think on your feet, your plan is going to fail and you will be stuck back at your parents house, defeated and depressed. What makes the difference between someone who is successful and someone who fails over and over again is their ability to say "fuck the plan" and roll with whatever life throws their way. No matter how good your "plan" is, life is going to beat the fucking shit out of you. Life hits hard. Learn how to deal with it at a young age. Stop "planning" and start doing something.

BTW, someone who moves out of their parents house at 24 years old is fucking pathetic. You're waiting for a golden opportunity instead of creating opportunities for yourself.

Thank you for completely derailing yet another one of my threads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Vg4uyYwEk

look i agree with you but to be honest both ways are going to end in failure. look you stay in chicago where, you can find a decent cheap apartment, (i know because i know alot of people who live there) but in Birmingham, doing that is a trap i promise. i know not one person who lives by themselves and doing good or even just making it (besides women on welfare because they got pregnant) mainly because there's no minimum wage law and and really no jobs besides shit jobs that'll get you 3 dollars an hour. the only person i know that's making it is a boy who came from a very wealthy family and i think his parents are paying for it.


im probably just making excuses but look im scared, that's why im paying cash for school because i don't want to be in debt. yes im living off my parents but they asked me to do it so i won't end up like all my friends who are back at home. ill rather have a clean slate living at home than in debt doing the same thing because i failed

but like i said im probably going to end up doing what ou said cause my pride is going to make me leave, so i hope you're right

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"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

Alright man, I'm going to tell you some shit that might be WAYYYY outside of your reality but hear me out. I'm going to try and help you as best as I can... That last post wasn't directed towards you by the way. Dicklow doesn't like me for some reason. Probably because he can't handle the fact that I'm a little "mean." I'm what most people say is "weathered." I've dealt with so much shit already at such a young age... I'm a bit beat up by it. But I'm still standing tall and that's my point.

First, I'm gonna tell you that nothing in Chicago is cheap. Aside from New York, it's one of the most expensive cities in the US to live in. Rent even in a shithole apartment runs atleast 800 bucks a month. So yes, you are kind of making excuses. Life isn't cheap anywhere you live dude.

Alright so I know how you feel as far as being scared... The world is a scary place. I'll tell you right now, nothing is ever going to go the way you want it to go. But in order to be successful, you've gotta be a fucking warrior who isn't afraid to go to battle. The best analogy I can give you is to adapt the qualities of a fast flowing river. No matter what "rocks" get in your way, you either go around it, over it, or find a completely new path. You always just keep moving.

What you've gotta do is grab your balls and say "alright life, fuck you! I'm taking you on!" and you get out there and do it. You can't be afraid of failure. You've got to expect failure. That's how you learn man... You fail. Success is something that seduces dumb people into thinking that they are doing something right. Failure is what teaches people the ways to not do something. Failing is how you learn. The key is to not let failure get you down.

I'd love to tell you that once you get out there, everything is going to be all fine and dandy... but I would be lying to you and I don't want to do that. You've gotta get out there and take a beating. That fear of going out and doing it is hard to overcome but once you do, you'll feel great about yourself for what you've accomplished. Life's a bitch.

Next, use your "pride" to keep you moving. I moved out of my moms house when I was 18 years old. (not by choice. But I managed to tell myself "Okay. This it. Time to grow up now!") I have alot of pride and I have used that to never allow myself to go back crying to her. My life has taken turns for the worst at times but I've always figured out a way to get myself going again. Be confident in yourself that you can do the same.

Don't think about the things that could go wrong or are wrong. See things the way they are (not worse than they are) and focus on the solution instead of sitting there thinking about the problems. It takes alot of mental discipline but if I can do it, so can you.

The last thing I want to touch on is your view on a "job." This might be the most powerful advice I can give you and I hope it sticks well... Don't find a "job." Find a "customer." You're 20 years old you said? You've got enough life experience now where you should have some skills. You should have something you can offer to people. Whether that be an actual customer or an employer, you have something you can offer someone. YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN MINIMUM WAGE! Keep sharpening your skills (whatever you skills you choose to develop is your own choice) and keep making more money using them.

I'm gonna say something that might blow your fucking mind.... but you don't need a "career." You need a skill (or a bunch of different skills) that can make you MONEY. A career is boring. A career has a CAP as to how much financial success you can actually have. A skill can take you anywhere you want to go in life. I don't have a job... I currently have 8 different sources of income where I can use my skills to make money. I'm a hustler. I have a lifestyle I want to live and I make money to continue to support that lifestyle. I enjoy life much more than I would if I had some "job" or "career" and am much more financially successful than if I were to have a job because nobody can pay me what I'm actually worth... So I work for myself. That's why sales is such a lucrative "career" because you learn how to work for yourself.

Anyways, my rant here is done. Hopefully I gave you some sort of insight or motivation to go out and create a life for yourself that you can be extremely proud of.

I'll PM you once I have the first video posted. I'm projecting there to be about 60-70 of them (if not more) that will offer you some more insight on the mindset and skills required (as well as helping you develop them) to develop yourself into someone who knows how to make money.

-Jay

yeah i get what you're saying...thanks man, both of you all for the opinions

_________________
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

Awful advice.

Get a good degree, get onto a graduate scheme. Separate yourself from the rest.

Sure it's competitive and I don't have a job, but I have been offered a few sales jobs over the last week or so. At the time I wanted them, but then I realised it would be a waste to do something that anyone (even without a degree) could do.

Sales base wages don't rise. Most people are lucky to get over 30k per year. Get onto a graduate scheme which earns more than twice that after a few years. Simple. Don't let pickup dictate your life. Let yourself dictate it.

Can we seriously close this thread? This is just terrible advice that leads to failure. Majik you just can't argue statistics. Degrees lead to higher salaries, better wages, and higher standards of living. Trades do the same. Having a plan does the same. This is just some terrible advice. Follow this advice and you will surely be a poor beggar.

How does a degree separate you from anyone? A college degree doesn't promise you shit. It doesn't make you any better than anyone. It just shows that you made it through 4 years of partying your ass off with out dying and learned some useless shit that will never be relevant in real life.
It's actually something that most people CAN'T do. Most people don't have it in them to get out there and grind it out to make some money. They just want a job that they can sit in their office, check in, check out, work 9-5, go home, and be told what they are worth.
Sales wages don't rise unless you work harder. Anyone who is in sales and only makes 30k/year isn't a very good salesman... they are a clerk. They are an order taker. Not a salesman. Do some research on the Educational Industrial Complex and you will learn that paying 100k+ for a fucking piece of paper will just keep you enslaved to the education system and making less money than you are actually worth.

Really? LOL Look up this guy named Steve Jobs. He created a little company by the name of Apple. He didn't have a college degree. He did educate himself... But he didn't count on a "degree" to get him anywhere. And a trade? Dude... Get real. Most union workers are desperate for work right now. Great field to get into.

I'm all for people educating themselves... But a degree won't do you shit. The best education one can get is getting out in to the world and actually seeing what its all about for yourself instead of being sheltered. College is fucking Candy Land. It's not real life.

Also, back to your "plan." Having a "plan" is bullshit. Plans change... All the time. You can't PLAN life. It doesn't work like that. Having a VISION is something that's completely different. Your plan may look all pretty on paper.... But you will be extremely disappointed once the real world eats your plan alive and you don't know what to do. A vision doesn't require a plan. A vision requires determination and persistence. Become a person with a vision instead of another fool with a plan.

to be honest both are really good and really bad advice....

TheMajikalMethod you're right because you have to take a chance and it gives you alot of experience, but if you suck at being a salesman your life pretty much sucks and you struggle all your life, and even if you are good you still hasve to work your way up and struggle then....but if you are good at what you do you are basically set for life plus plans don't always work and when plans fell depression hits harder

dicklow and Greek Angelos youre both right because you need to plan, because a good well thought out plan can save you alot of heart ache, also i gives you time to save your money and wait till you're mature enough....but college doesn't garuntee you a job unless you're the best from your class or unless your major is worth something, you can be a marine biologist and work in Arizona


basically for both you have to be the best at what you do and if you're not you're going to fail.....planning can be bad becuase you wait so long and still can't get a job and in dbt for school and moving out early is bad because if you suck at hustling then you WILL die and be one of those nerds who lives with his mother till he's 40...........i say if you're the best in your class you're guaranteed a good job basically and if you're a good hustler you're guaranteed a steady good amount of income

_________________
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."-Alfie

I think that on the subject of opportunities with ladies, having a job is very important, not only because (1) it will help someone move into their own place, but also because (2) it probably increases opportunities due to being out and about more, and (3) it's probably a turn-off to many women to be unemployed.

Unfortunately, it's far from easy getting a job in the US or UK at the moment, especially for recent college grads (who are also more likely to want to pick up ladies), and if we mean not just any job, but a job where someone's not underemployed.

You don't work for yourself when you're in sales. You're still being told what to sell, how many to sell and when to sell by someone who's higher up than you. This is especially true when you first start. You're never going to be "your own boss" in a sales job unless you become president or CEO or some other high position. Hell, even store manager has to talk to people higher than them. If you don't meet your quota, guess what? You're fired.

Sure, being in sales can help you in actually talking to people and perhaps getting good at interacting with others but there's shortcomings to this whole "sales" idea. You yourself might have moved up in rank in your sales job but for anyone here who's looking at starting this process, they are going to be at the bottom, the lowest "food chain" position. It's not some magical, 1 month struggle where they end up becoming this highly successful salesperson either. Furthermore, highly doubt that anyone who gets a part-time/full-time sales position is going to have enough disposable income, especially in the first year, to afford living a comfortable life on their own. Rent + food + transportation + going out = significant amounts of money.

I see where you are going with this but here...

1. You can choose what you want to sell. A person who is a REAL salesman can sell ANYTHING. Sales is sales. It doesn't matter what you are selling. Yes, you have to have a product you believe in. But the idea isn't selling something that is your own product. The idea is to sell something that can make you money. Product knowledge and believe in your product is something completely different. I'll get into that in my videos.

2. Any salesman who looks to "hit his quota" and that's it... isn't a real sales person. That's a slacker who's waiting for hand outs. All I've ever done for money is sales. NEVER in my career in sales (I've sold all types of shit too) have I said in the beginning of the month "I'm going to hit my quota this month." No... I always said "I'm going to DESTROY my quota this month." And I would make sure I did just that most of the time. I would set my own quota's for myself. See... a "quota" is something you look to achieve to not get fired. You're right. But if you want to MAKE MONEY in sales, you've got to fucking kill it. The people who do the bare minimum don't get fed. The people who bust their ass make a fuck ton of money.

3. You're your own boss because you are the one responsible for your customers. You are responsible for your own sales. You are the one responsible for your own income. In a sales job, if you fail, you have no one else to blame aside from yourself. You have complete responsibility. You make use of every minute you spend at work. You always have a business card on you just incase you happen to run into someone who may be interested in what you sell. You are your own business.
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A couple points on this...

Yes. Being in sales does help you with the ability to read others and interact more effectively with people in general. It's something that you have to get good at if you want to be successful. It's a great skill to have as far as anything goes in life. I'd say that's probably the most important part to be honest. You've gotta be able to tell whether or not you've got a potential buyer or whether your customer is about to walk out the door. You've gotta know if what you are saying is interesting to your buyer or if you are putting them to sleep because you're talking about shit that is completely irrelevant to them.

I was able to "move up the ladder" in every sales job I've had because I had the mindset of "I want to make a shit ton of money." I didn't have any special super powers or do anything different than anyone else. However, I have always hustled my ass off in order to make it happen. I guess thats a super power considering how many people these days are afraid of "busting their knuckles up a little."

I'll be honest... Yes. Everyone who gets into a commission based sales job does have some growing pains. It's not an easy lifestyle to get used to. It's alot of hours and the thought of not having "steady income" or a "set wage" scares people a little bit. That's why I originally said... It forces you to WORK. Once you realize that you can spend 60 hours just sitting at a desk and not make ANY money OR get off your fucking ass and make shit happen to pay the bills, you realize how much of a difference HARD WORK makes in your quality of life.

However, the amount opportunity is really endless. There is no limit to the amount of money you can make in MOST sales jobs (I say most because I believe some companies will actually cap your commission... but I wouldn't recommend working for someone like that) so you can set your own salary. As you become a better salesman, you make more money. But someone who is starting in sales, as long as they are willing to bust their ass, can make a decent living in sales.