Hunter, Xoved and AFC please read what I'm about to say... I took ALL of your advice and tried to remember it all. I seen her Sat and the date went good until the end..

I picked her up and she was in a negative mood, from an argument with a friend yesterday. I surprised her with a hamburger and she then realized we weren't getting dinner. She also said she just ate, but later finished the burger. I told her to forget her negative friend, and were here to hv a good time and etc.. And joked. She wanted to know where we're going I said, "The Zoo lol" and she laughed. So we get to the club, were the only ppl there cause it's early. We go to the VIP room, she gets on me and we're heavily making out and joking etc.. I stop her and say lets check out the roof. We get there, I lay down and she sits with me on the couch.

I'm a naturally quiet person, she we end up talking a bit, it was a bit of a serious convo. She then said it would be more fun with more ppl here and friends. Even when more ppl came I didn't talk to anyone, except the bartender and was just with her. We both didn't talk much, I said she's just "Blah" like too mellow. She jokingly got upset saying, she got too comfortable around me and doesn't feel like she has to put up a social front aka effort.

She had a beer and she said, she wasnt sure if she can see me next Tuesday cause she had training class and it was her friends B'day, named Robert. She also said, she wants to see of she'll miss me.. I said what? That's stupid. If I'm free and if your free we should hang, if I'm busy we can't viva versa . That's it. Wanting to miss me is crazy.

I said, why do you want to do that? Do you feel, you want to see if you still like me. (Something like that) she sorta agreed. She also said, it's a too bad I can't bring out her wild side, her friends know her to do it. She's not wild around me. I said, "You'll see". I took her to a stair case, picked her up around me, put her on a rail and made out with her and stimulated her a bit lol. I pushed her against the wall, she pushed me against the wall harder, etc.. But I still feel like it wasnt good enough..

The IMPORTANT PART!!!!!! Its time to go home, on the way home i park in a parking lot next to her house abd we start talking... We eventually go in the back. She says, she doesnt feel like making out and all that, not tonight. I said, "I know you say no, you just want to be forced." She says, "Ya i know, i told you that. why cant you just force me." I start kissing her, stimulating her all that... she tries to resist me and pushes me away, i geab her hands abd hold her back (causs this is all role play) she tells me to stop i keep going, evebtuallt she gets serious and she's like stop! So I thought she was serious, then she laughs and she's like see I knew you couldn't force.. I laughed and kept going. Eventually her pants are off and in this sexy moment we end up getting a bit serious and awkward. I say stupid awkward things to kill the moment. She does it anyway. Sits on me while I stimulate her. I get hard, take it out and she's like no, put it back in. So I do she continues to grind.

I told her that doesn't do much for me, since I'm a guy lol. Don't you care that I'm not getting any pleasure. She said I do... Anyhow, I start stimulating her so good, down there, she literally tells me how good I am and she needs to remember my moves. But my hand gets too tired and I sorta tell her I can't get her off as revenge for her not getting me off at the hotel one night lol. I'm only joking. My hand was literally tired lol.

She got upset and wanted to stop. Now here's where I just DLV and mess everything up. I said, That's it I'm done, I surrender, she got upset. I said, I put so much effort into you, I try to take care of you, get you food, make sure you hv a good time. I just want to be 100% for you. I don't get anything in return, I'm too nice with you, that's my problem. She says, and you don't think I care about you? How dare you say that. At one point she said stop being annoying.. (I think it was during our make out cause I made her take her pants off.) I said, maybe we should just hv time apart and she's like, "Your breaking up with me?" And cried a bit. I didn't deny it, I was silent. I honestly wanted to and didn't think it was worth it. I felt like I'm literally putting in so much effort to hv sex, like I'm begging. Thought its not true, I just put so much effort it embarrassed me.

I said something else, that sorta meant I wanted to not see her. I told her, you hv an attitude to much with me and your so cold. She doubted me, saying we joke around when we argue etc lol.. Your family makes you like that, from arguing with them all day. Your father screams at you so much your used to it. She said, I am... I then cried because I felt bad for her.. This was weird for her like why are you crying?

She taught I was breaking up with her, so she's like, "What now?"; "What am I suppose to think? I said maybe you just need help, I won't give up on you, you just hv to learn to be nice around me. I know you see me as a push over, I'm no ones push over, I'm just nice around you. She agreed that she does see me as a push over. I laughed and said why? She said, cause you let me get away with whatever I want, you even let me finish the hamburger after I offered you some. I said, the last thing in the world for me to be is that, I'm just nice around you cause your sensitive.

From what I can remember. We both agreed that she needed to be nicer and not so cold, because it's preventing me from getting closer to her and its stoping me. She said i know i can be a #itch sometimes, thats just me. she said she never wants to hv this Convo again cause she felt too much pain fearing that she'll break up with me. And I said I won't give up on you, you don't know how much I care for you, your my baby, my girl... She didn't awknowledge that, but smiled when I said good things about her. And every time I say she's my baby she says, "Im nobody's baby" that hurts me.. (She said that in the club not then). I also said, woman are attracted to me cause I'm not push over, etc..

I really wanted to break up.... because I'm putting so much effort in her. I realized it's cause I hv depression (Wikipedia depression to understand my symptoms) and low self-esteem. I still care for her but I feel our relationship lost its spark. I just wanted to be perfect. I hv so much to offer to woman but she don't see it, and don't appreciate it. I told her that. Got to her house, talked a bit and she said, "aren't you gonna' kiss me?" I kissed her twice lol. You can sorta see how bitter sweet it is. And she left...

Guys I KNOW this is a long message. I just had to vent all this out. I learned a lot from my mistakes and I literally don't care anymore. I know some guys on here are gonna hate, but that's not really gonna' benefit me. Please help me out the pieces together on what I did good and bad and what I should do. I've been crying a lot from this, there's a lot if pain in my heart...

P.S. At the club she said a guy winked at her in the club and she tried to get me jealous jokingly. I handled it really well, I acted unfazed and said icd, I'm not the jealous type

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Dude first of all. Well done escalating things. This is exactly what she wants. When she resists you don't even say a word just continue. She let you finger her. You take out your dick. And pull her head onto it (don't go overboard by forcing her). If she doesn't doesn't comply you put her hand in there to give you a hand job at least so you can get off. If she resists then you dress up. And tell her to leave the car. Not upset but calmly tell her that you like to get treated properly and she doesn't do that. Then wait for her to crawl back to you.

Things you need to work on:
- don't cry. I'm not even gonna explain this.
- don't be nice to her. Is she being nice to you ? No ? Then you don't have to be nice either. She even told you that she considers you a pushover because you are too nice.
- your low self esteem. This will take more work but you need to sort this out. Hit the gym, dress well, hit on other girls, have goals in your life. Basically everything which is not related to her.
- don't do these serious talks with her. It is absolutely pointless and don't achieve anything.

Once again you are improving especially with escalation which is good. Keep this up. Be more aggressive. Get what you want. You deserve to fuck and be happy!!! Keep this in mind.

Wtf dude...she tells you she wanted to be forced, you were almost there and instead of putting your dick in her you went into conversation?

After that she honestly wanted me to stop - she had to go. I couldn't even tell if she was serious. I felt degraded, like an animal. I've put in enough effort, it's not even worth it. I'm a bit aggravated.

AFC I'll get to your response in a min. If possible, what do you guys think of my responses and how I handled things. Like overall feedback. I'm just trying to learn and do better.

P.S. I'm new to Facebook, I'm not sure what this means. On her FB, all the posts I see are her playing video games, words with friends and etc. No verbal posts or msg's from other friends. Does that mean she blocked me from seeing that? Or just hasn't made post?

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If possible can someone please comment on the second and third paragraph of the above post. Thanks.

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Dude, serious question, how old are you and are you a virgin? It's no problem if you are, just trying to get a perspective on your mindset.

You are over-thinking way too much about everything. Facebook is just a tool for organising events, promotion and posting goofy pictures and LOL videos. Do not game on Facebook.

For your own sake, stop obsessing over this girl. She is the first of many, don't put all your eggs in her basket. Spread your eggs around.

Been busy these couple of days, couldn't get on the forums.

I see what you did here. You were perfectly improving until you released your emotions. I already warned you around 10 times to not stimulate your emotions and talk about them, it's the biggest mistake. Good thing here is that you escalated properly, should've gone further but it's ok since it seems like your new to escalation (correct me if I'm wrong). You shouldn't have even talked while being physical, just compliment her on her lips, skin, and keep escalating more until you reach sex.

You've gotten yourself in a situation where you dlv-ed yourself. Cool down a bit and try to be casual when she talks to you as if nothing has happened. She still wants it, but she's afraid she'll hurt you plus she sees you as a betasized male right now. You have to raise your value all over again. AGAIN I say this, NEVER release your emotions. I hope you learned your lesson here. The funny thing is that I knew that you were going to do it both ways, because that's what I did when everyone told me not to do it. You thought it was the perfect way to get her, and it didn't go well but it's ok.

Next time, no excuses, you either escalate enough to sex or just next her immediately because you'll start having a heavy oneitis on this girl and you'll end up lonely. Meanwhile, try gaming other girls and focusing more on improving yourself, it'll help and it'll DEFINITELY make you feel way much better.

Freeze her for a bit. When she contacts you, be casual and revert back to normal, NO EMOTIONS involved. You have a crush on this girl, it's not called love until sex is involved. By then, she'll be the one who's going to love you, not to mention that you'll have her wrapped around your finger.

It's all lessons learned, you'll have a lot to laugh about when you are older. So just enjoy the moment and live life man.

I have to agree with Xoved on this one. You need to freeze her out for a bit and you need to start flirting with other girls where she can see it. Women are basically driven by a need for status while men are driven by a need for conquest. If you are not out showing that you are an alpha male by displaying conquest in some form (flirting, sports, business, etc.), she will think you are low value and easy to have, making you not appealing to someone that is driven by wanting to have status. Be hard to get, make her work for you, and make her put out to keep you, and you will see that she will start treating you nice.

Just my five cents,

Invictus85

I applaud you Xoved, that's dr so much sense. Allow me to comment on what you said.

I didn't purposely become emotional, I remembered exactly what you guys said, honestly - not making excuses. In the club, I just became apathetic, (which I think is do to depression) hardly talked, and lost interest. Making her bored cause I wasn't being entertaining. (Idk how to fix that feeling I get)

It was during our intimacy that I literally got too fusttation by her and said, "I'm done." I got upset, said what I said, THEN got emotional... Info: she has a bad relationship with her father and gets treated terribly by him. I think this is the kinda girl where, the nicer you are to her (like getting her food) the worse it is. She wants you to treat her bad.

IMPORTANT: I dlv'ed too much, i dont think theres any recovering. Then again, you guys know more then me, how should I DHV??

Another issue is, I'm thinking about just breaking up with her, it's not worth. Since Saturday, I txt'ed her once and there was a little change in her responses to me. Not as affectionate. She hasn't contacted ME, all she did was like my message on FB. She probably doesn't want to see me anymore, from her body language I can tell she's bored in our relationship, saying it needs to be more exciting. Her expectations are too high, shes always complaining that I'm not muscular enough and she's also talking to guys on Okc, FB and her coworker. THAT UPSETS ME & HURTS ME. I'm just too upset with her, if she could be normal, she'd be perfect. I've never complained on her body (her chest is a bit flat, I always let her feel comfortable about it).

Anyhow, please feel free to address the questions I've brought up, I've literally learned TONS from you guys.

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As mad as I am, I think about the good times we had and it hurts me.. to want to leave her. Yet I think, if I don't leave her, she may either not care for me anymore or leave me first, making me even more hurt. She can go on Okc and msg those guys pretty good.. I txt'ed her Sat, telling her I'd call her, but didn't purposely.. To sorta DHV myself? I wanted to see if she'd contact me. She hasn't called me or msg'ed me... Is it my fault or she just dont care for me anymore.

(I know I said a lot. Answer the above post first before getting to this one.)

_________________
"Be the flame, not the moth." - Casanova

My journal confessions-of-a-seducer-journey-to-gre ... 84193.html Online/Offline, Texting & Reports.

Guys?

_________________
"Be the flame, not the moth." - Casanova

My journal confessions-of-a-seducer-journey-to-gre ... 84193.html Online/Offline, Texting & Reports.

You are not there in the club to be "entertaining" you're not a clown. If anything it's girls who should be entertaining you. An "entertaining" guy is DLV because he is trying too hard to impress girls he thinks are above him. Also stop blaming depression. Until you take responsibility for your own problems, you will never improve with women. Don't blame the club, your past, your depression etc.

You are very persistent and needy. If your texts to her are anything like your messages on here, I can see why she is pulling away from you. Give people chance to answer. Send one text at a time. Do not call her or text again if she doesn't reply. You are not being a man, you are being a boy who cannot control his emotions. You need to be a man if you want women to find you sexually attractive.

You are way too into this girl. If you find you can't be around her without getting nervous / heart racing etc. you need to break off contact with her completely until you can control your emotions. Let other guys chat her up. Let other guys flirt with her. Jealousy is really unattractive and needy. You're 21 and single and you're forgetting that there's literally billions of women out there. A truly secure attractive man never feels threatened by anybody.

Demand to be treated well by a woman. If she consistently doesn't meet your expectations, get rid of her and explain why. This is very attractive. Being prepared to walk away (and actually following through with it, breaking off contact, ignoring all her calls and texts etc.) shows her you don't take shit. Don't be a drama queen about it though. Everything you do should be very calm and slow, not panicky like you're being now. Slow down. Relax. Girls won't want to hang out with you if you never chill out.

Breathe. Nothing is as urgent as you think it is. One day when youre a veteran with women, you'll look back at this time and laugh. Mark my words.

Hunter basically said most of what I was going to say.

This situation is NOT healthy for you. If you keep at this pace, you're going to destroy yourself. Moving on is easy, and you'll realize it the moment you take the first step. One step at a time and you'll be way much happier in life. You've gotten yourself in a really terrible situation, and the only way to defeat it is by giving no shit about everything going on with her.

I have done it, and I can tell you I felt really jealous over her at first, but I didn't show it. When I started chatting up with friends in front of her while guys were HEAVILY flirting with her, she started wondering what's up with me. She started wanting attention from me, just like a "Hey look I'm flirting with decent men over here" signals, laughing loud in front of them and stuff like that. I just continued acting unaffected. The more I did that, the more I REALLY did not get affected anymore.

We went clubbing yesterday and she was with us. She ended up with these 2 heavily boring guys dying over her (she's around an 8 ) then sat down and chatted on her phone for the rest of the night while I ended up dirty dancing with 2 chicks (around a 9 each). I was happy, and I'm happy right now. She's pretending to be alive, but I know that I'm living life as it really is.

Start from now. Put goals, literally any number of realistic goals. Take your mind off her. Focus more on what you really want in this life. Think twice: Is this girl going to help you reach these goals if you were in a relationship? Does she even care about what you strive for? Is she always supportive and near your side? Are you really, and be honest, fully better in your life if she didn't exist?

I'm sure that you do not need such a girl to waste your life on. You only live once man, enjoy life and take a sip of every single thing that exists. You don't need to be stuck on this girl, you have WAY much more to do in this life. You're still 21 and you don't want to spend your life terribly trying to get this girl while others are having fun traveling, getting laid every night by different girls, making friends, running after their goals and becoming successful/rich/you name it.

First step you have to take is cutting contact in my opinion. Cut it COMPLETELY even if it hurts. I assure you, she will talk to you again and will try to pull you to her zone. DO NOT go for her again. You have self-esteem and value, do not drag yourself into her when she contacts you again, because she will do so. Talk casually to her when she contacts you, as if nothing happened and be serious about everything, no long conversations or emotional "miss you" messages.

She'll crave you, but you'll realize that you're living better without her. And that's when you really move on and she'll be chasing you around.

Hunter and Xoved... You guys are geniuses! I woke up this morning, it better spirits, feeling like I got my power back; trying to take control of things. I'm trying to learn as much as I can from this, to be prepared. I took a lot from this..

I don't really act, nervous around her like I can't breath, I'm mostly high energy. I just sometimes get emotional and geeky. Recently, SHE called me, I didn't know what to say, I joked with her a bit, saying I'm in Italy with my mistress also cheating on my wife. She joked that she's getting jealous. She also said she waited for my call 3-4 days ago, i said i know, ive been busy showing relatives around my area. (So thats why she didnt txt me) She ended the convo saying, I love you, I said, something like be good, missy! (it was a bit awkward I didn't say it back)

On FB I posted up pics of girls I know, who are hot -- and sorta poked fun at them. I also posted lots of girls msg'ing me "Hi" the caption was 'girls need better pickup lines" So I tried to DHV more. She reads everything I put up.

I txt'ed her that night she called, here's what I said.
----------
Me So you know, I'm expecting the royal SPAM, Friday xD (I told HER to buy me food on the phone. We're suppose to see each other Friday night and Sat.. She changed it)
Her Lol like a gypsy king. Well u know ill probably be with my coworkers (There going drinking. She's suppose to invite me but now she changed)
Me No worries, if we're both busy. I'll hold it against you.. The rain check, I meant lol (I calibrate)
Her lol but Sat I'm all yours
Her: after training I'll txt you
Me Fridays hectic for me anyways. So what are gonna' treat me to on Sat? lol
Her Lol i told u pick a place (not expensive plz)
Me Who said we were talking about food? See how romantic I can be haha
Her lol @$$
Her: I'm googling your gift (for Christmas)
Me: I'm sure, I'm gonna' love it babe, mwuahh!
Her U better! (IMO she doesn't reciprocate the affection)
Me: But, what should I put in your.. Stocking?
Her: ur luv lol
Me: My love is way to big for a stocking?
Her: lol good point
Me Lets steal Santa's cookies this yr, we'll hid'em in ur bra. Put the girls to good use lol.
Her Sry my boobs r too small to hold cookies (I feel she's not engaging)
Me There fine! ...What would you prefer we put in...
Her Errm lol
Me Wrong answer lol (I waited)
Her psh
Me Anyhow, I'm off to bed. Gn (IMO I gave up, felt she wasn't flirting back)
Her Gn xoxo
-------
How'd I do, and I felt her behavior was distant. Why was she like that?
As you can see I'm a bit different with girls, not 100% tho. I feel she changed our Friday date, so she can go and flirt with other guys. That's what girls do when they "Drink with friends".

I realized what I did wrong, I put up with her crap and didn't take control. If she acts out of line, disrespects me, I need to say no to her bad behavior and say she shouldn't act/talk that way with me. Saying I don't put up with that crap. (IMO that's what I did wrong. Which is why she said I let her get away with that. I'm not being a dictator, just standing up for my self and being authoritative)


IMPORTANT: what should I do with her, I can't be in a relationship with her, cause I don't feel like I can trust her, "She says I'm her guy" yet she still goes on Okc, flirts with others, tries to make me jealous (purposely) and wants to play little kid games. Do I break up?? I don't know how to handle our relationship (Keep in mind she's a virgin).
Do I bring any of these things up to her?<<<

P.S. She did affect my mind to much, but I feel I'm better. I also realized I just need to relax and not analyze things so much.

_________________
"Be the flame, not the moth." - Casanova

My journal confessions-of-a-seducer-journey-to-gre ... 84193.html Online/Offline, Texting & Reports.

If I was in your place, I wouldn't even THINK of dating such girls. I'd keep them as friends with benefits as a maximum bond and would not go any further. This girl is still young, she's still discovering things around her and experiencing everything. She does not want to commit. She's putting you as her "closest person who she can trust", but she'll lie to you soon enough when she finds another guy like you. These types of girls jump guys and keep switching at this age. Believe it or not, you'll be surprised a lot soon. Don't blame yourself, just be casual and everything will work out if it's meant to be.

The only reason she's calling you "her guy" and shit like that is because she wants you to keep hanging on to her while she pursues her life. Don't be that type of sad guy. Go have fun and get to know more people. Party and have fun, you're still 21 as I said.

Your mistake is talking too much (showing too much interest) when she's talking to you. When you feel that the conversation is about to end, just simply end it. It's pointless to talk beyond a certain point and it drives her away from you. Keep your value high.

PS: Freeze her out. Keep her in that zone for a while so she feels the risk of losing you.