There was this old thread where someone was basically writing off the whole concept of day game, that it doesn't work, and that it's better to just live your life and see what comes, than have dedicated sessions of going out with the objective to sarge.

Someone said something to the effect of, "anything is better than getting rejected all day in shopping malls and on streets."

I actually wholeheartedly believed this, but saw some shit last night that completely melted my reality.

I'll give you the basic gist of how the night flowed. I met a fellow community member at this huge mall we have here in town. This guy's a self-starter who got into it by himself about six months or so ago, pushed himself, and only recently started bringing another guy or so out; but it's still really for his benefit and less to teach.

He exclusively picks day-type venues; malls, busy streets in the city, coffee shops. He walks right up to girls, says "excuse me" or something similar to get them to stop for him, and straight up expresses his interest, without giving any lines away; but I will say that it's not routine-ey at all, and he doesn't really change up what he says much at all, and continues to get consistent results. He mentioned that when he started, he did do indirect b/c it was easier to ease-into it.

No routines, no gimmicks, no nothing. Just straight up talking to strangers. He granted that doing it long enough has helped him with conversation and having more stuff to say to keep it going.

I was f'ing awestruck! Every girl he just went up to cold would stand there and talk to him for 10-15 minutes! And I don't mean simply tolerating him, just to be nice, while looking around; yeah there's a difference, and we all know that when we see it, but that's not what was happening here.

Then they'd give him their number, except one at the very end, who, after a lengthy conversation, said she just couldn't do it because she had a bf. (She had a pic of her bf on her phone).

As far as the "better than getting rejected in malls all day", I've got to wonder if someone who'd say that has even tried day game...?..

I simply didn't see the rejections. At all. It just didn't happen. No girl told him to go 'f' himself, no girl went over to her friends to have them all point at him and laugh.

The very first approach I will say that one girl glanced at him and kept walking. "Okay, that never happens." he said, and it didn't happen the rest of the night. He'll walk out of a mall after a couple hours on a weeknight with 10 numbers, and have 4-5 dates lined up that week!

This guy said he knew the only way he was going to get good is if he pushed himself and made himself do it. I asked, "What if the first 5 you ever did went like that cold-shoulder girl? Would you've given up?"

He said, "Nope. You know why? Because that didn't happen. It *doesn't* happen."

He has a unique mindset that pretty much any reason to not approach is an excuse. The only line he said would probably be legit to draw would be hitting on girls at work or in your building where you'd continue to see them, etc. (the don't sh*t where you sleep thing)

So I was then forced to go and approach a couple girls before I was allowed to leave, and I was scared sh**less.

I was of course nervous as f**k, and thought both interactions went horribly, but he said I did fine. Then reflecting back on both, these girls actually stood there talking to me. Both even kind of volunteered stuff almost as if to keep the conversation going. Then it hit me:

These girls want you to talk to them! They're giving you a shot, and want to see what else you can come up with, or offer up for the conversation. There's the mentality we've heard before that you'll automatically have a value boost simply from walking up and approaching. I saw it time and time again all night.

I've even seen that during the day, if you seem noticeably nervous, a lot of times the girl will make it easy for you because she knew it took balls to just walk right up like that.

In a bar, yeah, that effect might exist, but like below, it's not that hard or unique to approach a girl in a bar or club.

Based on the low yield I've been seeing of late with nightgame (I've actually met very few guys who get results worth mentioning during nightgame; me and almost everyone I know - it's hit or miss) I'm beginning to think that any jerk-off can have a few beers in a bar and go up to talk to girls. Do that and you're simply "bar guy number eight."

No guys are doing this because it's frightening as hell! If you take even a split second to think about it, it sounds like it'd be the most awkward thing anyone could ever do.

As I've been in game since Dec. or so of '07, and I know tons of guys who've deliberately, worked every dimension of game *except* day game, it's true, where I've really put game to use has been at night and in a a more theoretical context, like when I'm actually seeing a girl. (scarcity purposes, etc.)

I in no way expected to see what I saw last night. My reality just plain out melted! It's the most bizarre thing in the world that you can walk up to a girl in a mall, stop her while she's walking, tell her you're interested in her, and get her to stand there for 15 minutes talking to you, then give you her number, and later go out on a date with you. (as in another day, that she independently agrees to set time aside and come out to meet you somewhere else.)

I really think this is where it's going to be at for me.

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hehehe! numbers don't mean shit!

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A phone number in a vacuum, of course doesn't mean shit. It's what you do with it.

If you convert it to a date, it's on. Sometimes you'll score, sometimes you won't. But needless to say, once you get it to a date, it's now *real*. It's no longer a "number that doesn't mean shit."

Walking into a ritzy mall and seeing all of the 24 year old little hotties dressed to the nines running around can be intimidating as hell for a lot of guys.

This is clear-cut Social Anxiety 101. - or to put it a little more accurately, "Not Getting Laid 101."

Like expensive/cool clubs and bars, the only thing about these places that's actually intimidating to guys are the women. Any dude can probably deal with marble floors, cool lighting, fountains, and cool terraces overlooking huge areas. But you try to get most guys to walk up to these girls, it's no go. You master that, and you've got it.

You get as desensitized to it as what I saw last night, you'll tear down so many psychological barriers in your life, it's crazy. I can already imagine how being able to do that would change my life for the better in so many areas.

This guy can walk into a starbucks and tell a girl in line that he's interested in her, chat her up, and get her number. Are other people in line snickering? I don't know....maybe....?....Should you give a shit in the end?

I'm not sure what the point is of sending guys a message that "Numbers don't mean shit, the end." If you follow that through to its conclusion, you're basically telling guys not to approach.

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Yep. Numbers don't mean shit.

But for someone who stayed on the sidelines for too long without actually approaching, yes that's a very inspirational anecdote for the benefit of others who have recently joined this forum.

Just expose yourself to a lot of girls, interact with them, and your f-closes shoot up. After those n-closes, you'll eventually have to learn how to properly escalate towards the f-close.

It doesn't take much time sarging girls really. Two sarging hours a day can net you more than 2 dozens girls both new and regulars. Use your meal times, travel time, groceries time, hair cut time, banking time and so on and your pick up arts lifestyle doesn't intrude much into your day-to-day routine activities.

Moreover, in this day and age of smartphones and tablets, there's a big misconception that MPUForum time is wasted time. Nah. You can learn pick up while taking a shit in the john or while traveling on the train--all it takes is a little bit of technology.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

I still don't get the "numbers don't mean shit" when you're talking about this kind of progress.

So it goes: "Yeah, that's great you got 10 numbers from cold approaching last week; sure you converted 5 to dates, and got laid from one of 'em, but numbers still don't mean shit, so, so what that you got numbers?"

I mean, that's great that nobody seemed to get anything out of this, and it seems to some of you as nothing more than a "nice anecdote".

In that case, why not call all of pickup anecdotal? That goes for all in-field footage and every story you've ever been told by an instructor at a bootcamp to get you going and approaching?

Might as well just say, "screw David D, screw Adam Lyons, and screw RSD"

The only point I'll grant you though is that I've been on bootcamps, where the next-morning de-brief was the coach saying, "You guys are awesome!! You all have what it takes to get girls' numbers! You guys are clearly ready for big-time game, etc. etc."

Yeah, BS. A number is a number, if you do nothing with it. Just like an approach if all you do is say, "Nice meeting you." and walk off.

_________________
Http://Dating-Musings.com

Bootcamp gurus are there to make money and make their clients feel that the money you spent was well worth the bootcamp. But if you keep on sarging on a routine day-to-day basis, numbers don't really mean shit. What matters most is that you GIVE fun and make the girl horny.

If the girl had enough fun and felt very horny around your presence, she will number close you and ask for a date herself. All you have to do is decline the date and isolate her to your apartment with something like, "I'm rushing several deadlines. It would be great though if you can help me with my laundry."

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Yep man, cutting through the bullshit does wonders.....and yes, girls actually do want you to talk to them! Could this be why they spend 3 hours in the bathroom primping every morning and hundreds of dollars a year on makeup? lol, Just pickin here bro....glad that clicked for ya finally....it's a healthy thing to keep in mind. Don't get it twisted, I love daygame and 90% of all the cold approaches I've ever done have been in the daytime....but don't knock night game either. It's not my forte, but you can get REALLY fucking good at that too, like blow your mind you wouldn't think it's possible good. It's not so much the time of the day, it's more about what you got going on internally than the venue you choose or the time you go out. Glad you got to see a decent guy in action, it's always inspiring. Keep in mind that no matter what you seen him do, YOU can top that if you wanna put the time into actually going out and approaching. Field experience is the only way to get good.

For all the guys who are confused why there are so many guys saying "Numbers Don't Mean Shit"......don't worry, you'll get it eventually....lol.

Why Skills and Hellhound are saying "numbers don't mean shit" actually boils down to a few different points....

1. Girls are very "in the moment." Meaning that they may like you at that very moment... but once you walk away, they don't like you anymore. Then, you hit them up... and they ignore you or flake. This is why I usually don't tell people to go in and get phone numbers... because they will stop at the phone number when they could have actually fucked the girl. Strike while the irons hot... just getting a number doesn't mean you closed.

2. Girls will give you their phone number so you leave them the fuck alone. Women hate confrontation. Especially with strangers. Think about it man... You ask a girl for her phone number in the middle of the street or in the mall... she could say "No" and then sit there and listen to you bitch and whine about how she should give it to you... or you could be some psycho who is going to hurt her... she doesn't know, she just met you. Or, she could just give it to you (sometimes even a fake one) and ignore your ass once you try and contact her. Which one do you think would be easier for a girl? A phone number doesn't even mean she likes you.

3. Girls will give out their number for validation. Some women just like a bunch of guys texting them and calling them all day. They love the attention. Especially the young girls who would be walking around in the mall.... If you're trying to become someone's new text buddy, this is fine. But I don't think that's what you're trying to do.

Am I discouraging day game? No. But don't just go in and get phone numbers man. After a while, it will just frustrate you once you have 7 "JessicaMacy's" and 9 "LaurenStarbucks" in your phone and you don't know which one is which. It's about putting your dick into vagina... not contacts in your phone.

I used to never ever heard of dagame. And always when I was walking down the street with friends and we saw a cute girl. They would go ''go approach her!''. But nobody would know how to sotp her, what to say and if she'd like it..

But.. Trust me. Those cute hot girls.. If yu approached them when yu go out in club they reject you so hard, even more so when they are with friends.. But during the day.. Things CHANGE ALOT. Cozz in the night they get approached sooo many times. But in the day.. Seriously? They don't get approached.. And if they would.. Its some guy saying something like ''Heeey you sexy girl!''.

Their really are certain techniques that really work in daygame! I tried it myself.. Went wit ha guy who did it for 2 years. But he did not knew about the real techniques. And My first 2 approaches ever were better then his.. Because I did everything according to the book. And for me that is just

The stop
The opening
The transition
Assumptions

And then their are some extra techniques you can learn later like crossing your hands early on in the conversation.
In the beginning nrs don't mean anything because the change of them flaking is really high..
But when you get better and better, you can add certain other things like Kino, seductive eye contact, pauses.

Thats why you practice. First get over your anxiety then you learn to open girls and get them to stop 90% of the time. Then learn the transition, after that comes keeping conversation up. And later you start with the seductive party to reduces the nr of flakes!

What I'd suggest you do. Is first watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBfMqUQw_iE
After that you go look up stuff from ''Tom Torero'' And ''Yad Daygame''

And yes. YOU CAN REALLY GET REALLY REALLY GOOD IN THIS!!!
Tom Torero went out doing day game everyday after work a few hours in London for a long time. He even went more then 4 months indirect in the beginning.

My opening btw is:

(best is to first get an ioi from a girl like a smile when she walks towards you) then when she passes you you wait, Go back after her. And get in front of her. I use a special way wich is the ''Yad stop''. Everyone does things diffrently. Some don't even like running after a girl and for some it works really good. The way I use to get them to stop most of the time is to point my hand somewhere and then I go ''Hey excuse me, (optional: this may sound a bit random but) I just saw you over their when you walked passed me, and I thought you looked really nice/cute. Or: and I really liked your style ( transition: You must do something in fashion don't you? )

It's been mentioned before that the problem with these forums is that people just get on here and type and type their views and never go out and do shit.

For someone as good/been doing it as long as we're talking about, you can try to logically tear down his method/reason for even doing it, why he'll fail at it all you want, but you can't! You know why? Records speak for themeselves.

If a guy says (and must be telling the truth from what you've seen of him) , "I don't know dude, I've done probably 5,000 approaches, got shit loads of numbers, dates, and lays, and that shit you're talking about just doesn't happen." You probably know which story to go with.

Sure girls will flake. That's why you cycle them through! You should never have a JessicaStarbucks8 unless you're fucking JessicaStarbucks 1-7, lol.

No girl will assume you'll stand there and bitch for hours about why she should give you her number. Jesus Majikal! Anyone who would say that, along with those "all daygame is bullshit" idiots clearly have never approached a girl.

Read immediately above post. If you've seen what I have, and know for a fact that this is something people can get good at, it should be real clear who's even tried daygame and who doesn't know what he's talking about.

_________________
Http://Dating-Musings.com

A number after 10-15 minutes? Try 1/10 converting to a date, if that.

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I agree with ya 100% man with the first part, it's always been a problem in the community.....Everyone has a theory, everyone has an opinion.....but not everyone that gives their opinion actually goes out into the field.

Actually, Majikal does have a point in what he says and I only say this because I've seen it and heard girls talk about it in the field........You got to understand that not everyone that approaches women are community guys and take rejections as well as we do......A lot of girls WILL just give their phone numbers out to get a guy that's making them uncomfortable to go away, because they have had bad experiences and have learned that it's the easiest way to get those "Creepyish" kinda guys to go away. I'm not gonna say it's common for guys to bitch about not getting the number, but I know that there are a lot of girls that do have experience with guys whining or doing/saying something negative about it if they don't get the number. I don't think majik actually meant it like the guy will "Literally" sit there and bitch for hours.

The Fury, most of my daygame interactions last around five minutes and most of my numbers end up in lays. Longer time talking doesn't always men quality time talking.

Daygame wise I pretty much only approach cuties who give me good eye contact. From there im pretty overtly sexual and heavy with the flirting so any girl not really interested "rejects" me really soon after the approach. Then after a few minutes I pitch an idea for a meet such as "we'll have to get together sometime this week" and if she gives any excuses or seems likes shes not genuinely interested when I say that I don't even bother taking her number.

Because of those three things my interactions are short, sweet, and effective. I rarely deal with flakes becaus eim screening out most of the flaky girls by doing the above.

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That's the most intelligent way to approach if your a guy who is "results" oriented per se......your going to see your highest rate of conversion doing things this way, hands down (I don't like that term at all, makes it sound like your selling insurance policies or something but for lack of a better term). There really isn't a better way to select who to approach if your just looking for a cute girl to spend some time with.......at least that I'm aware of.

Not just eye contact either, any type of approach invitation......girls playing with their hair and biting their lip while speaking to you, leaning over so you can see some cleavage, hovering around your general vicinity.....there's a lot of ways they can give you an AI

This is what is called common sense. I think approaching a girl without some kind of positive sign from her is quite ineffective and will just get you confused about what you did wrong.