Yeah, right. And I shoot bolts of lightning from my arse.

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Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Ok mister getting girls to have sex with you is easier than approaching them. It's even easier to approach a prostitute than it is to get sex from her, which you should know, as I'm pretty sure prostitutes are the only people who have ever given you sex. Anyways, I'm tired of this, ignore my messages from now on and i will ignore yours. deal?

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Debate is pointless without evidence.

Put your money where your mouth is and let's perform an experiment. I'm already holding Mastermind groups weekly, might as well test the idea.

I suspect teaching closing first will have less than half the success rate as the traditional method of opening first.

PM me that you're interested.

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MiikusMaximus
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You will be far more likely to regret what you haven't done than what you have.
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Be the man you want to be while living the life you want to live.
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I only have three rules
1. Make It Fun
2. Show Don't Tell
3. Be Genuine

The best players I know aren't the guys who bounce around a club opening everything in sight, the best players I know almost never approach. Everyone knows guys like this, they always are banging a new bird, but you never actually know how they're getting it, because you go out and they almost never approach anything. The reason is they are awesome closers, they don't need to approach 100 a week, they only need to approach maybe 1 or 2 and that's it.

Seriously once you've been around PUA a bit and have at some point nailed every part of the interaction at least once, it just becomes really clear that closing is the easiest part.

Closing is easy because usually by then you're on the same page. Chicks mostly don't want to be opened, but once a bit warm they WANT to be closed. That's why it's easy.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

I reckon you might be surprised.

Test it and get back to us.

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

Teaching one or the other in whatever order, I doubt will have that much impact to be honest. There is always feedback going on in every step of the process when it comes to pick-up (i.e. your approach, mid-game, closing, whatever are all intertwined in the end). However, as others have said, it isn't hard to test. But, guys, the thought that approaching is harder than closing is absurd...

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Approaching is easy, but approaching successfully isn't. Approaching is just that, approaching. Getting rapport is the problem. Once you have rapport closing is pretty straight forward, chicks are horny they want to fuck, once she's in the boat you just gotta whack her with the ore, baiting her is the real issue.

In sales there is a saying "always be closing" not "always be opening". Game's no different, get newbies used to the idea of "always be closing" straight off the bat. The last thing you want is a newbie who approaches 100 girls and doesn't even K-close, that's real soul destroying, but it happens all the time because PUA is obsessed with teaching approaching before they even know how to use it effectively.

That's what it's all about, efficiency, teach newbies how to be efficient in pick-up rather than just smashing out the numbers, it's a guided missile vs a shower of dumb bombs. And doing it this way would help inner game heaps, cause the newbie is getting a far higher hit-rate. Approaching 100 girls for 1 lay isn't helping inner game I know I tried it, but approaching 5 for 1 lay, isn't that where you wanna be?

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It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

In my experience closing is easier. Every single time I have closed in midgame I felt I got better at it. This doesn't hold true for approahing because you obviously don't know in what kind of situation she is. She might have a bf, she might be angry...

Even if you approach 2 per lay, by definition, approach is easier... I agree you should always be closing, I have written a few times on my site about how failure to escalate and close is a huge pitfall for men and I am even going to do a video presentation about it, but, that doesn't mean it should be taught in a certain way or that it is "easier" than approaching. Just like in calculus, derivatives are much more useful in real life applications than limits, but you still learn limits first, and you need to know limits to know derivatives. If you can't approach, unless you are brad pitt, you are unlikely to be closing much.

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Again, approaching is easy FOR YOU. It is not easy for a lot of us.
Even more true, which is why we need to learn how to open.
Sure, and every good salesperson I've met doesn't even think twice about opening because they are naturals at it. I, however, think 5-6 times before I do anything. See, the thing is you can't understand why someone might need to learn opening because you didn't need to. Much the same way a natural doesn't understand why we need to study PUA to get laid... because he doesn't need to.

You had a natural advantage: you were already comfortable opening.
It's not as soul destroying as seeing 100 girls you like and chickening out of talking to Every. Single. One.
I'd love to approach 1 for 1 lay... but I'm still working on _approaching_ one or two a night. Look, most of the time we know a little about closing too before we go attempt anything. We've all probably read The Game and other things and sat around reading all kinds of threads on these forums. None of the "closing" stuff helps if you can't open.

All this debate comes down to what everybody considers to be an approach.
Is it to walk up to a girl on the street and ask her what the time is ?
Is it to go up to a girl in the club who is clearly into you ?
Depending on the situation closing will be hard / easy.
I consider myself a closer. I have no intention to do mid game, 5 lies game, text game, cold reading etc. I select my targets and only go up to the ones that are interested in me. I act direct and show my intentions from the beginning. With that mindset closing is easy. It takes not more than 20-30 minutes in club setting to pull the girl for sex. It takes the first date to have sex if you've met the girl under normal conditions (ie. not club but anywhere else). And this happens to me consistently. Why ? Because I've learned which girls are worth approaching and what ones aren't. So in my situation approaching is harder, takes more time, selection etc. but I will almost certainly close if I do.
But if you learn things like: how to kiss a girl properly and make her horny and wet, how to escalate kino, how to pull her to sex location then your success will be much apparent then if you learn how to do routines and dancing monkey acts. Because properly closing takes balls. And that's where a lot of guys fail.
So yeah I agree with OP that people should learn how to close first.

Too obvious to figure out the guys who have actually given the PU a thing a spin and write from experience from those who selectively copy/paste or guess up fantasy ideas.

I was a fan of vicpark's online game post because it makes sense. The original post of this thread makes plenty of sense as well. Why is everybody so hung up with the difficulty scale?

Regardless of your chosen endeavor, you next step is ALWAYS smoother if you already have a good idea of how the step after that will unfold. It's easier to do a kiddie maze with a pencil because you have a bird's eye view of how the next turn of the maze will turn. Those real size mazes they have in amusement parks are far more challenging because you have no idea what will happen after the next turn. This is why entrepreneurs will often write their business plan backwards, with the goal written first. The goal drives the strategy and the strategy drives your tasks.

@TheFury you are interpreting this too literally. I think what the OP means is that once the girl feels comfortable enough with you and her automatic bitch shield is down, making out with her and escalating towards sex is easy compared to cold approaching strangers successfully. Once you have escalated towards making out and sexual touching in the club, it's only a matter of time before she will be bouncing on your cock. Sure, the occasional prick tease chicks make out with you and you never get to fuck them, but they are anomalies.

Your definition of a successful approach is going up to a girl and saying "Hi, I'm Fury", that's it. Regardless of whether she turns her back and ignores your approach or rolls her eyes at you etc. A successful approach in my book is a "green light girl" who is receptive to my approach and either submissive or flirtatious in reaction to your advances. Once you've got to the green light stage, closing those "warmed up" girls is easier than cold approaching strangers you know nothing about.

Ten thumbs up. Without experience in closing, opening a girl is scary because you actually fear success, i.e. you'll screw up on a more obviously embarrassing stage. All the guys I know who are good with women have this mindset, as they are so familiar with closing that opening becomes a bit of an afterthought. Of course, on the other hand, I know a few guys who are naturally keen to close but they actually lack game in the earlier stages, and end up being awkward and creepy, playing an unsteady numbers game. So if you can become an ace at closing, and then gain a modicum of social intuition in meeting and flirting/attracting girls, you will truly have a well rounded skillset.