Pretty common theme in pick-up is that newbies should learn approaching first, even the newbie challenge on here is pretty much all about approaching tonnes of girls. But you read all these threads from newbies, and it's pretty obvious approaching isn't their big problem, the big problem is closing.

If you're even just semi-social you meet girls by accident. Looking back when I was a chode I can think of heaps of girls I got to so-called mid-game with by just pure accident, but just had no idea how to turn that into a lay. If I was a good closer I could've got maybe 50% of those and would've racked up a serious number of lays with quality chicks.

After 3 years in PUA I've realised that it's not best learned forwards, but best learned backwards. Closing should be the very first thing newbies learn.

If all a newbie knows is how to close, then it solves a lot of problems that might've come up before you even get to that point. If you're good at closing and know it, where's the approach anxiety going to come from? Half of approach anxiety isn't worrying about the approach, it's worrying what you do AFTER the approach. And it's the same with everything in PUA, everyone's worried about what to do next. If you're an expert at closing, you're confidence is higher because you know you haven't even pulled out the big guns yet, rather than getting stressed because you've already wasted the big guns on your stupid approach line. Getting good at closing could automatically solve approach anxiety, but it sure as hell doesn't work the other way round.

PUA really at the end of the day is all about sexual escalation and closing. Get good at that and everything else will fall into place. Forget aiming to open 100 girls a night, or trying to get 10 girls into mid-game. Just work on you're closing and you might not even have to approach at all, you meet girls by accident all the time anyway, and if you know how to close, then that's going to be easily enough.

Get me drift?

_________________
It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

I agree closing is a huge problem and approaching is easy.. but learning approaching should still be done first, because it is easy and builds confidence which then helps closing.

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Closing is tough, approaching is easy, but I think depending on the age, one or the other should be taught. At my age (28) - you don't meet many women randomly all that often. It's usually in a bar or club scene. If you're like, under 24, when I imagine it would be a lot easier to randomly meet women in your day to day life. Not that it's impossible at my age, just rarer.

You are close to your prime age man. Late 20s - early 30s, in most places is a Man's peak. You can and should meet women any and everywhere.

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Agreed. With some semi-decent inner game (cool hobbies, cloth, style, body lang) I believe one can get enormous amount of lays by just proper sexual escalation and closing

Closing should be easy if you approach directly no?

Dudes here are saying approaching is easier than closing, I reckon that's totally bullshit, once you're know a few tricks closing is the EASIEST part of game. And I think most decent PUA's on here would agree, closing is really dirt simple once you know it.

Approaching you're going in cold, you don't know her, you don't know if she's single, you don't know if she's looking, you don't know anything, and you are trying to get her interested out of thin air.

Closing on the other hand is really straight forward. You already know a decent amount about her, she's probably up for it, it's just a matter of a bit of tactful naughty escalation and that's usually all it takes.

Also, closing is the most fun part of PUA, approaching is all tense and shit, so why not get newbies to focus on the fun part of PUA first.

_________________
It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

The biggest problem with newbies isn't the approach, it's they get stuck in mid-game. Mid-game for me is almost a myth, I only use mid-game tactics if there is no other option (big groups etc) but one on one there IS NO MID-GAME. Newbies warm them up a bit, then go on the endless journey through mid-game, and that's where they all die.

Approach, once primed, straight to closing, skip mid-game altogether, FUCK MID-GAME!!

_________________
It came to me in a drreeeaaammmm

True on that. Once you have isolated a woman, closing is the easiest thing to do; even easier than a cold approach.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Yea, it's also easy to close once your dick is in her vagina... Closing is not easier than approaching. Approaching is by far the easiest part of game.

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

There is some merit to the argument the closing should be taught first.

I propose we settle this semi scientifically. Here's the experiment.

Find 20 newbie's in Los Angeles. Two groups of ten.
Group A (team approaching) is taught approaching and banter first.
Group C (team closing) is taught escalation and closing first.
We'll have one lesson per week per group for two months. At the end, compare lay counts and more importantly satisfaction with training.

Any advanced pua guys in LA down to help me do this? I'd like to start asap and will create a vehicle for this today.

PM me.

_________________
MiikusMaximus
-
You will be far more likely to regret what you haven't done than what you have.
-
Be the man you want to be while living the life you want to live.
-
I only have three rules
1. Make It Fun
2. Show Don't Tell
3. Be Genuine

Is this for real? Guys, closing is way harder than approaching. Anyone can approach with absolutely no skill or game or anything of any kind, not anyone can close. If closing were so easy, then everyone on these boards, hell, the world would have slept with 1000+ women. Closing is way harder than approaching, it's not even a debate, it's like comparing 1st grade t-ball to playing in MLB.

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

I'm sick and tired of your bullshit.

All you do is debate in the forums on why a technique or approach will not work instead of testing those out infield.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

I've been sick and tired of your idiocy forever. Try in field? I am in the field all the time which is why I know what shit works and what doesn't. Seriously, you think it is easier to sleep with a girl than APPROACH her? what the fuck are you even talking about. Jeez you are a fucking idiot.

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

Are they complete newbies, or just newbies who are finally getting to the mid-game part? I know I always struggled with opening, and continue to do so...
I wasn't, and I suspect other guys who end up here are not either. Even then, meeting a girl is NOT the same as opening one.
Looking back, the few parties I attended went on _around_ me. I might get introduced to a girl but if she didn't speak to me I wouldn't speak to her, or anyone really.

It really depends on the kind of person you are. I strongly suspect that in the beginning most people who got into PUA were like me... shy, awkward and just not even talking to women. Maybe things have changed a bit, and increasing popularity means more guys like you, who met women but had trouble closing, are showing up... but a lot of guys are still going to need help with opening.

Really, you think "mid-game" is where things should start... but that's because you were already past the real beginning.
Nope, it is worrying about the approach. What do I say? How do I look? She probably has a boyfriend! What if everyone in the bar things I'm an idiot? What if this isn't normal?

Those of us who aren't outgoing have to get through all of that long before we can even think about the end game.