So there is this HB I sometimes see at my neighborhood coffee shop. Sometimes it's pretty crowded there and is standing room only. Today I while I was waiting for my order I went and stood next to her. I commented on how crowded it was, and she smiled and agreed with me. I said next time if one of us gets a table they should save a spot for the other one. She smiled again and said good idea. I was just about to say something else when she opened her purse to put her wallet back in and I caught a glimpse of a book she had: "The Mystery Method: How to Get Beautiful Women Into Bed"

She saw me looking but I caught myself and played dumb, and asked her "Oh what book are you reading?"

She replied: "It's a book about pick-up artists. You know, those lame guys from the tv shows where guys try to pick up women in bars."

To try and save the frame I kept playing dumb and replied "Never seen them. But if it's for guys then why would you be reading it then since you're obviously not a guy?"

She laughed and responded "I have to keep on my toes. There guys are everywhere. They don't just try their pathetic "routines" (she did the finger quote thing") in bars. They harass women on the street, in class, at work and everywhere else. And even if you tell them you have a boyfriend or are not interested they persist. I've read all the material (and she listed them...the Game, Double your dating etc). Need to know how to keep those losers away." she said with a smile.

Right then I was saved because her name was called because her order was ready. She said "bye" grabbed it and left. Which was good because I was floored and had no idea how to reply.

So what do I do know. She knows all about PUA and thinks we are "pathetic" and "losers". When I see her next time if I try to run any sort of game or routine she'll see it a mile away. But without PUA I'm such an AFC and have no idea what to do. Should I even bother to approach again? And if so, what should I say that will make her not see me as a loser. Help please!

hey mate,

its quite easy actually.

But first, you should understand something. Most of the pua material is made to do two things: help you conquer your fear of approaching and change you into something that women might find attractive, to build your confidence, etc etc.

Most beginners of pua and also most women who dig into the stuff believe that the material is made to change something in the victems. They think that the routines and the openers and the whatever the fuck is supposed to 'hypnotize' them, changing the way they look at you. When you look at it like that, from a woman's point of view, with a no bullshit mindset, the stuff is pretty ridiculous. If you really think that most of the material is made to change the woman, you are wrong. That is the reason why she thinks about those guys as losers. Also, most beginning pua have the nasty habit to be totally in their own world and in their own head and they forget to empathize with whom they address. They are so busy remembering their routines, lines to say or subjects to address, that they totally look over the mental state of their target. So it usually goes like this:

you: hey, i want your opinion on something: do you think white socks are cool?
she: (laughs, and you htink its an IOI because you dont see how she seems to be upset about something, but she only laughs because of the stupidity of the question). yeah, i think they look good on 70+ senile men, but only that category.
you: (thinking that you truly broke the ice), hehe, yeah, yeah. So, you wanna grab somthing to drink?
her: uhm, no.
you: why? (trying to figure out her motive so you can think of an appropiate technique or reply)
her:(totally not in the mood, and she wants to get rid of you) its not my day really
you: (oh, its only that, lets get some cocky funny shit here), oooh really? But that is no problem because i can really make your day!
her: heh, yeah, and i have a boyfriend
you: (aaah, the boyfriend thing, i have a reply on that one i found in some book by some dude). Well, i had a message fromt he boyfriend police and they said you need a new and better one.
she: i dont think so. i really have to go. bye.


This is a bit exaggerated, i know, but when you look at it this way, its stupid.

So, what to do about it? Well, like i said before, its fairly simple. If you have the balls for it, you just tell her the truth. If you ever get caught on doing a routine, you dont really have anything to lose anymore, right? So just bluntly say the truth.

her: hehe, nice try. Isn't the following part of the routine you trying to isolate me?
you: (you have been revealed). Aaah yeah. You got me. I am sorry for using something silly like that, but i do think you are very pretty and i would like to get to know you better.
her: but why didnt you say so?
you: well, to be honest, i dont really know how to start talking to girls, it makes me nervous, so I just try stuff out.
her: well at least that is honest. I like that, but I really can't. My mother is quite ill and I dont feel like it.
you: (remembering that since you have been honest, you most likely will get a plain honest reply from her. So you look at her and she really does look a bit troubled. So you are not going to be a lame ass) Aaah i see. I can imagine it must be horrible. I hope she gets better fast and fot what its worth: have a nice day.

About the girl with the book: she doesnt know that you are into PUA but you do know she doesnt like it and she probably knows most of the material you know. Again, just be honest about it. If you happen to see her again, but honest about what you want. Also, this is probably daygame, so be honest but socially acceptable honest. dont go: i wanna fuck you at the coffeeshop. go more like this:

you: hey, i remember you from the other time. You are the girl reading men's books .
her: hehe yeah. but i cant remember you...
you: that is ok, i get that a lot. Say, you look like an interesting person. I would want to have a coffee with you. Got some time?
her: like, right now?
you: yeah, i am pretty bored at the moment and this might be fun.
her: yeah, ok, but i only have 15 minutes.
you: that is ok. i am going to sit right over there.
her: ok cool, i ll join you when i got mine.

Something like that. She might also refuse for about any reason, and that should be ok for you. If you see her again at some point, she frequents the coffee shop, and you can say hi again. Dont be pushy, just be friendly. As a pua, you can take a 'no' like a man. If you have more questions, shoot.

i hope it helped

cheers and good luck

_________________
"Stop being a fucking vagina and escalate" - CaptainJackHarkness

Like the naked leads the blind.
I know I'm selfish, I'm unkind.
Sucker love I always find,
Someone to bruise and leave behind.
placebo - every me, every you

When I hear about girls like this, it literally makes my blood boil.

You should carry on doing a mixture of gamey things, whilst being as authentic as possible, and if she starts to "accuse you" of using routines, game etc. on her, you should explain to her the "positive" reasons behind PUA skills, e.g. building confidence, giving guys a chance with women. Explain to her why you are learning these tactics, and that if used for the right reasons, PUA and other social skills are something you can be proud of.

Women should not criticise something that is a science and has proven to work in the field. These stupid double standards are illogical, especially since I bet she's rejected AFCs in the past. If she doesn't want someone who has worked on their personality, and become their best self, then it's her loss.

This seems to me like a very fun situation. You could just act normal most of the time and then drop something slightly PUA in, enough to make her wonder where you're coming from but then play it off and deny it. Or use something blatant and then if she tries to call you on it say that you read about it after she mentioned it and thought it was funny.

Without actually revealing that you were into PUA before you met her, you could make a big joke about it, saying "hey, I reckon it's about time to create rapport with you now, what do you reckon?" By doing that you can set the frame that you are attracted to her and maybe even trying to seduce her, but using your mutual knowledge of PUA as a way to joke it off as if it isn't real. But maybe, just maybe, it will become real. And maybe, if she is inclined to play along, she will even experience some of these things in the way they're meant to be experienced. She may realise that actually it's not just for losers and isn't just about running predictable routines.

_________________
If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

That might work, but personally I would just be honest. It's like LD said, PUA is not about changing the world, it's about changing you. You are nor a AFG without PUA, you were an AFG before the mental training you went through.

If i was in your place I would say something like this: "I know you know PUA techniques, so I won't insult you trying some game routine. I like you and would like to know you better, so if you are interested maybe we could go get a drink and chat for a bit." If she acuses you of being some kind of predator, loser or something like that, say something like "PUA techniques are a mean to an end. Just because I know it, it doesen't mean I am some sort of backstabbing bastard who is only interested in one night stands. Think about it this way: both robbers and cops use guns, it's what they make with the resources at their disposal that makes the difference. I am an honored man who treats women with respect, but if I have to use dishonest methods in order to compete with assholes who only want to play with a girl's heart, so be it. In the end of the day, it's the result that counts, not the path you took to get there."

The way I see it you have a really good oportunity to stand out from the crowd and be yourself with this one.

"When I hear about girls like this, it literally makes my blood boil."

Amen brother, it should.

Meanwhile, she goes and reads cosmopolitan, and is constantly seeking dating advice from her friends- everytime she dolls herself up, she basically becomes a female pick up artist- just as
"fake" and "shallow" if you were to use a routine on her. Girls constantly figure out how to game guys- they talk about how to send text messages, etc. She presents herself in a good light, why can't guys do the same? It's shit like this that keeps a bunch of guys in AFC land their whole lives, and lose their self esteem. While guys are talking about sports, girls are all talking about dating and romance.

I'd just call her on her hypocrisy. She'd just assume that guys with zero success with women remain unsuccessful. You can try changing her mind, but if you can't, stay away from a woman like this.

I would run routines on her anyway, like use a blatantly obvious routine and do it in a joking manner, like do the cube. Say you googled some shit and also thought it was hilarious. Easy way to build rapport man. Honestly, what girls say and how they react and what they do are totally different things. I have had girls on a first date tell me they will never sleep with someone on a first date and that they aren't going to sleep with me (this is like within 20 minutes of the date while we were still out at the bar) and then end up coming home with me and sleeping with me anyways.

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

What you're advocating is that if a girl insults you, you should qualify yourself EXTENSIVELY to her, instead of laughing it off, acting disinterested, telling her she's welcome to walk away if that's what she thinks.

_________________
If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

haha

it was a shit test

In that specific situation, yes. Being a girl that knows about PUA the general rules do not apply, so even tough your course of action would be correct for any standard girl, in this case she would recognize that as a "move" or a "routine". So I belive the best option would be to do something completely original and outside the box in order to keep her off balance. If it means temporarily handing the control of the situation to her, so be it.

Play games whilst being authentic....

Makes sense to me

Good for her, I think that's pretty funny actually.

Why make such a stink about it? Look most of PUA is garbage anyway, and she's just taking the initiative in protecting herself from the myriad of douches out there. Can you blame her? Females get played all the time.

Most of pickup is nothing about building confidence, but rather convincing you that you aren't good enough and only PUA can provide you with the answers (what it does is actually enables guys, keeping them dependent on seeking advice of others rather than thinking on their own two feet).