When I first started PUA I was clueless about kino.
After I learned about it I was using it too soon and usually would get a freak/weird label.

It of course depends on many factors. But lets say you just sat down near her in the park and convo went smooth, you have got decent rapport.
Time to kino? Well, imho depends on a girl.

In the place where I live most girls will only let you kino them on second date. Maybe I'm not good at it? The fact that you started convo with them already shows that you are interested.

I'm not talking about bars or clubs because its totally different and usually alcohol is involved.

What are you experiences?

Escalate the kino from the start. Start with basic, friendly touches right off the bat and escalate higher and higher at different speeds depending on the energy of the environment and the girl/

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When you do the right thing, you will be shocked at the things that will happen in return. When you do the right thing, it always comes back.

yeah, but thing is most girls will stop you even after light friendly touch on shoulder/arm. Like "I know what you are doing so stop it". They want some personal space with strangers and i think that is normal.

This has, literally, never happened to me. You probably aren't doing it calibrated. Do it as you are speaking or smiling, don't just awkwardly touch em, you should feel like the touch is natural and not forced. A genuine touch.

The later you start, the more awkward it will be to touch the girl. It will appear is if you "suddenly" decided to pace your hand on her shoulder. How do you expect to kiss or have sex with her, if she isn't even used to your touch yet.

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When you do the right thing, you will be shocked at the things that will happen in return. When you do the right thing, it always comes back.

majik-s-guide-to-kino-escalation-vt163160.html#p778662

Check that out.. Hopefully it will help you

Maybe its my age (51), but most women (in my age group) who are even somewhat attracted to me don't mind casual kino when I first meet them. I stroked a woman's hair that I just met tonight. Not all women are the same, and if you are casual enough about they will let you know if its too much. I guess its a thing with me, I love women's hair.

Fucking excuses. Touch from the start. It's who you are. If she doesn't like it she can suck it (she probably will suck it if you keep persisting and don't take any of her shit and just be a normal, fun, escalating dude.

Immediately or ASAP.

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Start kino immediately. If she is shutting you down then either you dont have congurent body languge, your escalating too fast or there is negative tension. Read up on natural game to make sure your portraying the right body language and also read the topic on this forum about female body language. It will all help improve your game. For latinos, when we first meet we greet men with a firm handshake, and women either get a hug or cheek to cheek kiss (this iniates kino right away) other cultures are different so when i greet a none latin female i use a different approach. I'll extend my hand out palm up (exposed palms is a subconcious sign of being none threatening) with a warm smile and the female will usually comply by placing her palm on mine and i will lightly shake her hand while saying nice to meet u. This always works for any type of kino later on.

If im on a date for the first time i always let my date know that i walk fast so if she feels like im runnin, just grab my wrist to slow me down (this puts some ease to their comfort of touching me and also gives them an excuse to initiate kino as well)

I also believe in being courteous to women and elders. So i always open doors and let the ladies go first. At times i do this naturally but ive noticed that when someone is walking pass while i hold the door, i'll place my hand in back of them as sort of a pat on the back way but in a sense to let them know im walkin in back of them (this is better to be shown than explained but it works for kino too and if you do it right, you can touch a girl's lower back which is an errogenous zone for them)

Crowded places are the best as it gives you an excuse to pull your target closer into you. I always grab by the hips with a light touch or if i feel the vibe i'll even grab and hold hands which most women love. If you walk the street holding hands then u have high chances of a k-close

Quote from that post: "When you tell a joke or whatever... pat one of the guys on the back. It makes you seem much more friendly."

I hate when someone does that to me. Do whatever you want just don't touch me, because I don't need your tenderness. Even if a cute girl does that it feels weird and if it is a guy I want to punch him.

All of you say "immediately", so I will try to kino asap in all my next interactions to see how it goes. But it will be very unnatural for me to tap somebody on the shoulder, sounds stupid already lol

There goes your problem right there. Its your inner game and limiting beliefs that make the kino weird to the other women

It's not weird if it is seductive kino when we got some comfort already. But starting it right off the bat when I just approached her, that is what weird imho.

This is why it doesn't work: you are not comfortable with touching. So stop blaming the girls

Don't worry about it too much though, had this myself and changed it completely within a month or two. I'd say the key things are 1) accept that touching people is natural and normal, and 2) it is only awkward if you make it awkward, 3) set the stage immediately with some initial physical contact.

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

Same here, never happened with light kino.

Yeap, seems to be my individual problem. Ok, lets change that and see what we get from it