Experienced PUAs: Your biggest past sticking point?



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:14 am 
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What would you say was the most challenging sticking point (or one of the most challenging that comes to mind) to overcome during your journey of learning this art?

How did you overcome it?

I would say that before 2010 I was still holding some very pesky limiting beliefs about how far I could/should use sexualization when talking to women, and really putting sexualization and kino escalation into a lot of practice was a great solution. Even though by that time I had studied and practiced so much pickup material (mostly value-based and "natural game" stuff), so many naturals would be able to get very physical very fast while I'd still be doing the cube lol


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:36 pm 
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The most important is to treat others the way you want to be treated and take an interest in a strangers well-being. There's a lot of other points that fall under that theory, ie; being honest, being happy when others such as your friends or acquaintances connect even if it's a woman you wanted to connect with. stopping a pick up routine to help a little old lady cross the street, making acquaintances with someone by themselves and lonely. All these pick up systems are neat and dandy but real pure bread naturals look out for every ones best interest and the pick up part is natural after that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:17 pm 
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For me it has been the Madonna/whore complex, biggest thing i got out of joining the community:
Quote:
The Madonna/Whore Complex originates with Sigmund Freud. Freud noticed that men who grew up with distant, cold and/or emotionally abusive mothers developed complexes surrounding women and sex. As the men grew up, they sought out women in their adulthood that possessed the same cold and distant traits of their mothers. What results is an acute fear of intimacy in which men compartmentalize women into categories of pure women who are worthy of love and commitment, and then the sexually desirable women who are sluts or whores. The most popular way the complex plays itself out is in the paradox in which any woman a man sexual desires must be a slut or a whore, and any woman who loves him and adores him is considered pure and consequently, he fears intimacy and feels inferior around her.

It’s kind of a sexual form of Groucho Marx’s ”I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member,” conundrum.

The whole theory, like many psychological theories, is murky and the only real consensus about it is that basically, a lot of men seem to have a lot of anger and desire tied together around feminine sexuality, as well as a fear of intimacy and inability to get close to women who are deemed marriage-material. Think serial cheaters. Angry womanizers. Playboys with commitment issues.

Generally, any sort of animosity towards female sexuality, belief that certain women are sluts, whores, bitches, skanks, etc. are typical signs of the Madonna/Whore Complex in action. Obviously, it varies widely from man to man, but anything from a shrewd comment about some bitch in a short skirt, to saying you’d never touch a girl because she sucked some guy’s cock in the club bathroom, to going into violent rages at girlfriends over the most minuscule issues are common manifestations.

The philosophical problem with the Madonna/Whore Complex is that it’s a double-standard and it’s misogynistic. It’s basically saying that feminine sexuality should be controlled and squelched, that women who are overtly or freely sexual are somehow morally inferior, while masculine sexuality should be allowed to roam free. Women have far deeper and more complex sexualities than men and to try to limit them from expressing it is flat out prejudice.

It’s a double-standard because as men, we want women to be openly sexual with us — we want them to have the threesome with us, we want them to blow us in the movie theater, we want them to fuck us in the dressing room at H&M — but as soon as they do it with another guy, they’re a fucking skanky-bitch-ass-slut-whore and no fucking way would I ever go near her, she’s probably got herpes or something.

It’s the mere masculine jealousy and insecurity around the feminine affection — again, handed down at childhood — playing itself out in courtship.

If you don’t buy the philosophical argument against the M/W Complex, here’s the pragmatic argument: women aren’t going to be sexually open with a guy who judges and criticizes women for being sexually open. You know that PUA concept of Last-Minute-Resistance (LMR)? Or their so-called Anti-Slut Defense (ASD) thing? You need to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Things like “LMR” don’t exist if you’re able to make a woman feel sexually comfortable and open around you. Often this requires little more than an open and candid conversation about sexual experiences and expectations without showing any judgment whatsoever. Once she sees that she can tell you about the time she cheated on her boyfriend in college, or the time she got drunk and had a threesome with her roommate and her roommate’s boyfriend, and you don’t freak out or call her a whore or laugh at her, chances are she’s not going to think twice when it comes time to sleep with you.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Ha Ha, thinking back 20 years.

Listening to people who knew jack shit instead of finding things out for myself.
I learned that lesson quickly.
The only game to speak of was caveman game. Followed by your place or mine.

I was always trying to pull the girls that "I WAS TOLD WERE OUT OF MY LEAGUE".
So I would go for girls that were not my ideal match up but more looks etc.
Thinking about it as I type.

I had a typical problem.

Fear of rejection....
Not using the dancefloor.

I got over it and learned to dance like M Jackson.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:26 pm 
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Two come to mind.

1. Cold-Approach, which I'll admit I still suck at. I only approach girls who show some iota of interest in meeting me. It works out quite well for me, whether the IOI was imagined or not this is how I operate. But walking up to a stranger to start a conversation is a very difficult idea for me to wrap my head around. I get laid shit-tons from Warm and Hot approaches.

Warm: She gives me an approach invite.

Hot: We're introduced by a third party or meeting each other is a natural byproduct of wherever we are.

2. Expressing my interest verbally. Most PUAs go the route of "assuming attraction" and stuff like that, but I prefer to just tell girls I'm attracted to them and then ask if they're attracted to me too. It was scary the first few times but either way you learn some really useful information.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:02 am 
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Mine is/was approaching and closing.

Which really came down to not approaching enough and often I'd just not close for whatever reason; drunk, believing I needed to 'do' more, thinking I could leave it until later. Then on dates I'd over complicate it thinking "Oh I hope she doesnt think i want her just for sex" which I've come to realise is all she's probably wanting and thinking herself. In fact I know.

Its something I've only started to focus on right now.

Its hard to go out around where I live as not many people go out apart from weekends (which is why I dont think I approach enough) and is why im getting to day game too.

As for closing, solutions I found great were to try the VitalyzdTv "Put your number in my phone" opener, that way you realise you really can number close any girl, anytime. Then you just develop it into a more solid close such as bridging a date and qualification into it.

SNL's are what Im working on now but I couldnt call it a sticking point as I haven't tried enough.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:43 pm 
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Before I got into PUA, my biggest sticking point was the exit. Suicide threats and murder threats are usual. I also have had a few career embarrassments here and there because of girls pulling drama while I'm at work.

Now that I'm into PUA, my past and biggest sticking point has been the cockblocks. I've tried befriending the cockblocks but they tend to try to walk all over me and then I realized, why should I kiss the asses of these women who are making my life difficult? So what I did that worked for me like magic is to eject from sets every time a cockblock is around and see cockblocks as non-persons.

When I get invited to parties, I ask the girls who will be there. When they mention the names of cockblocks, I flake or decline. It took some time for the girlie sets to recognize and learn this behavior. Because of this, I now get better SPAM from sets. The girls also shoo away any cockblocks whenever I'm around. Some even make quarrels with the cockblocks because I have ejected too soon from a set.

:twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:04 pm 
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My biggest sticking point when I started was mid game. What to say after the open... I overcame this with the proper use of kino.

The biggest realization came when I understood getting better at the game is all about pushing my comfort zone.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:07 pm 
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My biggest sticking point for a bit was managing intentions. I never had major issues with anything else, maybe some tweaking with a few things, but managing intentions have played its role on me.

In the middle of seduction I wouldn't be sure what I want to do with the girl- see her for a few nights, see her in a casual environment, see her and be exclusive. I love all women and there were some that I enjoyed getting to know, while some I just wanted to get it in and not see ever again. When I decide what I want to do I act a bit differently, but when it's up in the air it usually leads to me seeing her for one night to protect myself.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:39 pm 
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for me it was everything! It started with eye contact and kino, just not being a weirdo when talking to a woman. Then it was fear of rejection and the fear of taking risks. That was the biggest one. Beating around the bush instead of just going for what I wanted.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:40 pm 
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My main sticking point was my sex venue. I lived with my parents for a while, so I would just wait til they went on vacation and then had to choose whether to fuck girls in my twin bed or on their California King bed. I probably fucked about 5 or so girls on my parents bed due to the size of the bed and convenience...

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:47 am 
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for me when i started out was not being social, i would only go up to targets that met my standards only to be dissapointed by them and it made me come off as a douche or a-hole, which I wasnt trying to be. i overcame this just by socilazing with everyone and just randomlly talking to people. learn how to ask questions in a way that it would be humorus or funny. Made it more interesting for everyone. another one is my Mid-game ,Its something i do to myself, half way through i realize" why am i with this girl, i cna do better" and zone myself out of it and cut ties, i learn that even if it doesnt work out the way you wanted it to, its ok to kept ties or network throught them.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:57 am 
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For me, and for a lot of the guys I've taught, the biggest sticking point was always pulling the fucking trigger. Actually GOING for the close. Making the conscious choice to make the close happen. Related to that was going for a safe close (getting the number instead of making out, making out instead of going back to someone's place) instead of pushing the envelope a bit and seeing what I could get away with.

Both of those got a lot easier when I stopped worrying about results and started to focus on having the greatest experiences I could.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:22 pm 
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I have to agree with monkey.

"Pulling the trigger" always has been, and still is, my biggest sticking point.

One way of improving it is ramping up the kino and getting real cuddly with the girl before the close.

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