My friends, here is what happens when you think you've gotten too good. You don't think you need to game anymore. You can just be yourself. You get burned and whipped and booted off the mountain into the abyss of chodedom. Here is my story:

Last Saturday night, text a girl from college who lives in the area I just moved to, not really expecting much. She immediately calls me, tells me to pick her up. We get a drink, have an awesome time, go back to her place, and immediately fuck. Perfect pull. Life is good. Now I've been averaging about 1-2 lays per week, decently hot girls, but none of which I would want to pursue anything further with. This chick is definitely different. This is pure chodespeak, but she is the type of chick I would want to marry. Shes a 9, went to a top university, is in grad school, college athlete. High quality woman. I know, I'm a chode, but I'll say it -- I legitimately like this girl.

Next day, we go out to breakfast, then she drops me off. She texts me saying she had fun blah blah. I ask her to hang out later and she says she wishes she could but she has to study. She proposes we hang out tuesday, which I cant, so I say lets get dinner wednesday, which she agrees to, kind of indifferently.

Thursday -- I pick her up at her friends house, she invites me in, says her friends are interested in meeting me. So she's talking me up to her friends, thats a good sign. Later, as were talking at dinner, she starts saying how she feels slutty about what happened and that we should slow down and we should just be friends. I laugh, and tell her to just chill, theres no reason to put labels on anything. She's throwing me IOI's the entire night sitting really close to me, so I take it as a shit test, not that shes being serious. She did just break up with her boyfriend like a month ago and tells me "You don't want to be the rebound guy." At the time I thought this was a joke, but now I think she might be serious.

Friday -- she texts me telling me to come out, but I'm visiting a friend in another town. She texts me an hour later "?????" after I don't respond. I take this to mean that she is legitimately interested in me, which ultimately leads to my chodey downfall.

Saturday -- my chode self begins the descent into chodiness. At dinner thursday we had discussed having a beach day together on saturday, so i text her to hang out. She says shes at brunch but will text me when shes done. Like four hours later, I havent heard from her, so I text her. She says shes just gonna go take a break, but go out later tonight. I'm kinda fuckin pissed because I put my plans aside planning on hanging out with her (chode move). I peace out and head to my buddys place in the next town over. Night rolls around and I'm in a bar talking to this smoking hot chick, having a great time. Then she texts me and tells me to come over tonight cuz shes having friends over. In ultimate chode fashion, I ditch the girl at the bar and peace up to her place. Shes got a bunch of her friends over and pretty much ignores me the whole night. Everytime I walk up to talk to her, she says something about just being friends. Like she wont even give me the time of day. Pretty unreal.

The irony of all this is that I've got chicks that I've banged texting me, begging for my dick (literally), simply because I don't give a fuck about them. If you've got experience in this, you should know what I'm talking about. The second you start to care, she senses this and thinks she can place you in the comfy little friend zone and make you wait. Bullshit. I give you this story as a warning to all of you who think you've mastered it. The game is essentially a power struggle, where the woman tries to test your level of not giving a fuck. You don't give a fuck, you win. You give a fuck, she has leverage to pull you around. You lose. Stay vigilant, my friends.

I should add that this is girl #2 from my previous post titled "Experienced Opinion -- 9/10's Fuck then Flake". I just reread my post, and it sounds like I'm in a shitty mood. Because I am. I hate more than anything getting whipped around like this, its what brought me here in the first place. In need of some perspective on this situation, can't get it from my friends cuz they don't know game.

Sucks man. Surprised you couldn't keep it going after an f-close, I've found like you said, when I f-close, girls are begging for it again. weird.

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http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

I disagree with this analysis. It's not about giving a fuck or not, it's about not letting a girl boss you around simply cause you like her. It reeks of neediness, and neediness is unattractive.

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

Was I that needy though? I didn't see her Friday and then did Saturday. I know I liked her but I don't feel like I conveyed neediness, just genuine interest in her. I think her recent breakup did me in, or she feels ashamed about fucking me the first night so she's distancing herself. Do I reach out? I don't want to reward her shitty behavior from Saturday night though.

Of course I only know what you tell me. You said you planned around her and came immediately when she told you to. When comparing her to other girls, you find her way superior. You ditched a hot chick for her. You seek contact with her continuously even if she ignores you. All this, and you've only seen her twice. You called these chode moves yourself, and they are. I think you are way more into her than she is into you, and that she realizes and (somewhat) abuses this knowledge. If that is true, then I wouldn't reach out if I were you, because it only confirms her ideas. But maybe you can arrange to bump into her 'accidentally' somewheres.

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

Never did this. She never ignored me, in fact, she initiated contact with me. Maybe I'm biased but I see her distance saturday night as a test. I'm open to others opinions, but thats my hunch due to 1) fucking me a few days earlier and b) texting me the night before and that very day to come out.

Yeah I was chodey at times -- I thought I had hooked her since we fucked so easily the first night and she was down to meet for our subsequent dates. The mistake was rolling to her house, with her friends, for their night. In this situation, I don't know anyone else, so I'm somewhat reliant on her. I'm not the leader. I've taken away from this that in the early stages, you must always be the one leading. It shouldn't be her inviting you in, you should take her to a place where you know everyone and show her how awesome your life is. By saying "We're just friends" literally everytime I would even talk to her, I feel like she's overcompensating for something. She feels bad for fucking me right away and wants to re-establish her value/power. She even said this on our second date -- "It was slutty, I feel too easy".

Takeaway is that you can pursue a girl you legitimately like, just from a position of power -- which I failed to do by going to her party too early on. Gonna forget about it for a month or so, then invite her to come along somewhere with my friends. Interested in others thoughts/experiences if they've had similar situations.

Alittle more context -- we knew each other in college and used to flirt constantly but we were always in relationships. So its not like I just met this chick, there was definitely a buildup of sexual tension over that time period. On our second date I did make a kind of offhanded remark about knowing that she was always into me, so I may have overdone the cockiness part and made her feel too easy.

Good answers from board. Your own answers are appearing as you go along within your story, that's good you are moving forward.

I shall add the term oneitis as no one mentioned it and think it fits the situation quiet snugly. The girl is not lost though just give it some time, and strike again when you feel it's right. Not to mention the GFTOW which applies as well.

Also you may want to look up your "Outcome Independence" as Black Dragon mentioned to me once... He referred as well to that 1980's movie call "Cop" where you can find some kind of inspiration..

So you know I have been married for 6 years now and the same pattern is constant with wifey. The more I give a fuck (using your terms) the more she gets numb. I think that this is part of the modern syndrome of the western woman, meaning some degree of mental disorder... we have to be always on our guard, never relax, that's the way it is.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

R_III

Don't take this the wrong way, here are just some of my thoughts on your issue. Your move to ditch the hot chick at the bar for a girl who made no commensurate investment in you was a pretty chode move admittedly.

However, here's where I think you might have done something different. You said she talked you up to her friends, and here again was an opportunity for you to integrate into her social circle. I mean, when I go out alone "sarging" I even try to get to know some of the guys I see alone from time to time. It's never a bad idea to try to get to know people in general - the world can throw you surprises in varied corners. Here you had an effortless opportunity to perhaps connect with people; a situation where you had a reason to socialize and automaton "shields" were lowered. You could have had a wonderful night. She is a grad student right? So she must hang around people who have genuinely interesting things to debate and discuss. But you could only focus on seducing your target.

It's just a hunch, but going by what you posted it seems the girl was giving you broad hints to integrate yourself into her network. This might be because she doesn't want her entire circle to see you as "some guy" who she has not-so-decent flings with. So at her party you had your eye too firmly fixed on the "prize". She sensed that you just wanted her for more of the same, and by your own acknowledgement you are getting a lot of lays. So you are the guy she sees as just wanting to get more notches, which is ironic because you actually want a long term relationship for once. Your volume-bang mentality is perhaps too ingrained and permeates through your (uncalibrated) actions.

I understand that girls blow hot and cold, and it is kind of fucked up. But you are guilty of the same thing. You were being all nonchalant in response to her IOIs on Thursday but then you blew another tune on Saturday. Anyway it is like the stock market - short term volatility is just noise. If you want this girl for the long term (in a meaningful way) you have to make a lasting impression beyond some petty seduction games.

You said you really liked her in a special way, and mentioned she goes to grad school. Is that the real reason or is it just because she's really cute, energetic, and sexy? I get the part where "grad school" represents a mate who is smart and successful, and that's obviously good for any future offspring, but do YOU connect with her on an intellectual level? Have you made any effort... wait I really shouldn't even say effort because you should be truly interested in what her thesis is and why that line of exploration makes her tick. Ask to see her manuscript, spend a while grasping the concepts then poke and prod her about the content ; ) Failing to make that sort of a connection, I guess it could work out if she is the materialistic type. If so, are you impressing her adequately in these long term "quality" categories for her to invest likewise?

I doubt that it's just a western or feminine thing, although it may be more prevalent here. The fact is people like to be "surprised", and are very adept at taking a consistent level of affection or comfort for granted. This can be seen most readily in terms of parental relationships (most kids think they just "deserve" it) or even the oft-cited hedonistic treadmill concept.

Anyway it's pretty sad to hear that this remains the playing field even well into marriage. Not in any way to be construed as a passing of judgement mind you - I'm still a virgin and my situation is immeasurably worse. But one thing I don't get is what would compel you to give more of a fuck if that is the situation in the first place. I mean there are plenty of interesting things to explore in life - you get horny once in a while and want to satisfy your urges but if the woman herself isn't all that interesting why get so attached? I would only give extra time of day to people who could reflect, see through these preconditioned impulses, adjust behavior and thus learn to see life through a more beautiful lens.

I did exactly this. The night went somewhat like this --

I walk in. The Girl introduces me to her friends. Everyone is nice and friendly. The Girl asks me if I want a drink and I say yes and go into the kitchen with her. I dont even say anything and she just goes "we're just friends" very firmly. I'm like "...ok...just gettin a drink, not trying to hook up with you". The rest of the night she doesnt speak to me and I make friends with her friends who seemed pretty chill. Later at the bar I walk up to The Girl again, not in like a seductive way or anything, (maybe she perceived it that way), and she goes "we're just friends". Its like shes throwing out there just to make herself feel less slutty. Bizarre.

Not only part of MWWS however widely amplified. Why do I care about my wife even is she plays ball choppers? Simple. She was the best breading stem I probably came across, plus she is the best mum, junior is a lucky little boy. Meanwhile to be honest I could not put up with so much shit served on silver platters everyday so I live away from wifey, come to visit when I can. It works good this way.

It's good to hear you've found a system that works for you! The added context you provided makes me think you've done really well under the given constraints.

Correct. You gotta play your best with the cards you are being dealt.