Exactly. Take this and make it the background on your phone, tattoo it on your wrist, put a post it note on your fridge, get contacts with this imprinted in them if you must... but always remember that you are NOT someones little puppet bitch. Start saying no. Have opinions of your own.

I totally agree with you, this was the point of my post in the first place, I feel like she's wasting my time - but I'm completely confused since she acts so interested (non-sexually) on the date itself..

Anyway, texted her earlier to come hangout the next time she's free (so she cant say shes busy), but have a strong feeling she won't even text back to that or will find some excuse. But its time for some sort of closure either way, so I'm down with this idea

The other day I texted her a question and didn't hear back for a day - so then I texted "so thats how its gonna be huh.. see ya" - I then deleted her number, I was done with her. She flipped out and texted right away, then I texted her an ultimatum etc and she was all about it, texting me all kinds of stuff, totally all about me - BECAUSE I basically told her to get lost.. but I think it was all BS, because she couldn't have me I was a challenge; I then went out with her the other night had a great date but I was all over her, complimented her dress - so she is back in the taking me for granted camp...

The last date maybe I should have seemed more on the fence about her? and made her work some, which is probably conveying that "no" idea, goddammit! I probably screwed it all up

This woman is leading you on to get free stuff. She acts interested so that you will continue to empty your wallet while she fucks some other guy. Learn from your mistakes and don't make them with the next girl.

If she refuses to just "hang out" at your place or hers, this will prove she is a freeloader treating you like an SPAM

Hey thanks man; I didn't mention it so you didn't know but lets just say money is nothing to her, she has a lot; what she is freeloading is my time and company on these dates! And I think thats her goal as she is depressed and maybe just bored, using me while she goes online to find someone better.

I think the my place problem is that she is a goddamn nun when it comes to sexual contact and she's afraid of being alone with me - or doesn't want to give herself up to me in hopes that she finds someone better online.. or maybe like you said she's already got a lover on the side - and now she can go find the husband...

No response to my text yet.. what would you text her next? Or would you just wait a few days and text the same thing again?

Something doesn't add up here. Either;

a) She is strict Catholic who won't have sex before marriage
b) She likes the attention and ego boost you give her, but wouldn't dream of sleeping with you
c) She is using you to freeload
d) You're already in the friend zone but your pride can't accept it, so you pretend her "non-sexual" interest in you is romantic. Romance cannot happen until your dick is in her pussy. Nothing is real until that moment happens.
e) You're not as good at eye contact and physical escalation as you think you are.

You deserve better. If a girl doesn't meet your requirements, get rid of her.

Thanks man, I will go for someone else, but still have this idea that maybe she just has baggage or a wall I need to break through.. Its hard to leave when you already have all this work, time and money invested! I think yeah it could be B, D, E, A, to an extent. The other night I touched her like 20 different times while wine tasting, but at a certain point when a woman has zero reaction to your touching you start to feel like a perv..

She didn't respond to my text asking her over to my house yesterday, so late last night I texted her something unrelated and she responded. It's like as soon as my house gets mentioned she just completely disappears, like she so afraid of me making a move on her if she comes over.

Iv'e decided to just stick to your idea of a casual meetup with the text for her to come over for a movie, Im just going to text it to her every few days until I do get a response - whether its her telling me fuck off, or her caving, but Im going to make HER respond.

Don't see it like that bro. See it as you now have created a memory for yourself as to what you should and should not do. It's a learning experience. A reference. Pick up is not about "OKAY, I WANT THIS GIRL! I'M GONNA GET HER!" it about being able to gather as many life experiences and references as possible so when that fucking STUNNER walks past... You have gathered enough info from previous experiences to know exactly what you need to do if you want her. Whether you win or lose, you still never fail. You learn.

4 dates and you're already looking for a relationship w her? Scary. I hear this story often these days from women. It's as though guys have turned into committment whores whereas women were considered to be this way years ago.


Too intense, too much drama she's probably thinking. If she's smart she ll run.

Read the signs bro. Notice how she is unresponsive when you push for the hangout. Yet when you're being unthreatening she responds. Game teaches us to be alpha and unaffected by outcomes, but sometimes when you push and push without a response, you have to cut your losses, retain your dignity and move on. She knows you are invested in her, both financially and emotionally. She has all the power because she is just reacting to what you do. Does she ever text you or call you first, out of the blue?
Do not text her every few days, you will come off looking like a pest and it will piss her off. Never force or demand a response from an unresponsive woman. The only way you can get the power back is by breaking it off and wishing her all the best or possibly start seeing another girl to trigger her jealousy reflex (not recommended in most cases). Your time is valuable. There's a reason why people say "time is money". Just think all the time you've wasted on this girl, you could've already been seeing someone else who is sexier and nicer than this girl. Having a girl caving in to your desperation is never a good spot to be in. Be clear about the qualities you look for in a woman. For me it's loyalty, trust and reliability. This happened to me recently when I was trying to milk a few more blow jobs out of a bored ex. She kept arranging to come over, she knew I was sleeping with someone else, but in the end flaked on me 3 times. Ignored her for 3 weeks, then she texted me saying "I miss you so much XX" by which time I had had enough of her flakes and said "That's nice but it won't solve your flakiness. Take care and all the best". I'm not going to beg it from someone with her track record because I'm worth more than that. Girls talk to each other. If you're a persistent creep, this girl will tell her friends. Getting a reputation for being a creepy desperate guy will do you no favours.

If your talking like early 20's I totally agree, but like late 20's and over I know of dozens of women that age and only 1 is single. That said, yeah I probably came on too strong even if she wanted a relationship, I made mistakes for sure..

Thing too is this girl just got out of a LTR, so I guess I thought maybe she is prone to just jump back into another..

Right on, yeah thats how Iv'e tried to think of the dozen or so failed dates Iv'e had the last months with women, I learned so much and fucked up so many dates haha, but yeah your right I need to think of this situation as a positive too, there is a LOT to learn from this.. if I could redo that last date knowing what I know now, I would be golden!

Although one problem I had on my past dates is that I learned things - like listen more, ask more questions and dont crowd them out with drunken stories - and all day before the next date I would tell myself not to do those things - then on the date I would do them! I think alcohol plays a role, but its crazy, its really hard for me to fix certain things.

Hey, yeah she won't text out of the blue; the only time she did was after I flipped out at her with my ultimatum text, she ate that up. But we had date 4 since then and I was all over her, so now she knows she is safe and that Im no longer a challenge and that was the end of her texting out of the blue..
Your right, I think the breakup text would work - because she responds fast and submissively to that stuff. If I just ignore her and freeze her out, she wins, but a pre-emptive breakup may work.. although I did already play that card to an extent after date 3, but lets try it again and have some fun, haha
Thanks man, yeah your right I won't bother her; its my personality, I just always feel like getting back after rejection, I know its not cool; Ill just do the breakup or delete her number.

I bet your text to that girl made her even more attracted to you though! The one time I had two girls who knew about each other like that, the first one, the rejected girl was all about me.

"xxx its obviously not working, not sure why you wont show any sexual interest in me or hangout at my house, but Im over these platonic little play dates where I cant even put my hand on your leg, good luck out there"

her response: Haha ok you too
my response: Perfect

It was probably over before this text which is why I sent a provocative one as sort of a hail mary, as she usually responds best to that, but think things were just a little too far gone - she was already in control. Although I am hurt and surprised at the coldness of her response considering all the dates I took her on and how hard I worked to give her a good time and make her happy...

Oh well, live and learn - thanks for the help guys!

You're making an awful lot of assumptions. Why is it important for you to have a label SPAM? Do you feel it will offer you some sort of security?