Scientists conducted a study where they put some food on top of a ladder in a room full of monkeys.

When a monkey would try to climb the ladder to get the food, the scientist would punish the monkey in some way (I forgot how, but maybe they sprayed the monkey it with a high-powered water hose or something like that). They would punish any monkey that tried to climb the ladder until the entire group of monkeys was too scared to try to climb it.

They then introduced a new monkey into the room. When the new monkey tried to climb the ladder, do you know what happened?

The rest of the monkeys punished the new monkey by beating it up (or something like that, I'm paraphrasing from memory).

They added another new monkey and it tried to climb the ladder. The rest of the monkeys, INCLUDING THE LAST ONE, all joined in on the ritual of punishing the newest monkey for trying to climb the ladder. Each new monkey ended up becoming indoctrinated into following this stupid ritual.

The monkeys in this experiment are not at fault for being conditioned into following these artificial social rules. They're still victims.

You think men are any more innocent for calling each other faggots? I usually don't hear women using that word to describe men, definitely not as often as men use it.

Women know exactly what is going to happen if they go home or to the car or a motel with you... All you have to do is make her feel comfortable, get compliance and escalate. Her automatic response may stop you or say no couple of times, maybe twice(rarely Happens), so you don't think of her as a slut. Focus on arousal. i been with plenty of woman that i took home after the club, can't not remember any one accusing me of rape or force. Well, my current gf 6-7 years, is the only one that flirted with that word, with the bs that "i was kind of drunk", as her backward reasoning that i fucked on your first "date"(hangout i don't do dates). Which is pure bullshit from her part, since i don't do drunk girls.

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No Chief, he point is that men have the same stimuli as women in that case. I actually don't condone the use of the word faggot. The fact being that men face a lot of the same societal pressures to be masculine as women do to be feminine.

With that being said, I agree that people have been conditioned to use the word "slut", nevertheless women are the ones who must take the first step. Men can stop saying slut all they want, women will still use the word on each other. I've even asked many of my female friends to stop using the word, including my sister who knows that I don't feel ill of women who have a lot of sex. To no avail the world is still regularly abused by all the people I continuously ask to stop.

I've simply made it a point to stop caring and move on. Society "supposedly" has double standards, but when one looks closer there are simply unrealistic standards placed on both men and women. I think people who use the word faggot or slut are not the types I'd like to associate with. However, these words and concepts are so pervasive that they are hard to escape.

Great question, and one I've wondered a lot about.

It does feel a little rape-y sometimes, to be perfectly honest.

I would never take advantage of a girl, or continue if she gave me a "real" NO.

But Saturday night a girl came over, brought beer, and we ended up hooking up. She had displayed her interest in hooking up on Facebook before I even got her number.

She kept saying we weren't having sex tonight, which I always assume is just something girls say...I mean come on, she came over alone with beer after telling me she wanted to hook up. Then we did.

But something weird happened at the end. She looked at me and went, "...you knew we were going to have sex tonight, didn't you?" And for some reason it made me feel rape-y. Of course I did. That's why she came over.

But it still seemed like she felt "tricked" somehow. It's been on my mind since it happened.

I know I didn't do anything wrong but I still felt weird about it.

Anyway, to answer the question, it's impossible to say. Depending on which Feminist nut bag you ask, rape means a thousand different things. If it's gotten to the point where they're saying even "yes" means "no," they're outta their fucking minds. Unfortunately the court system supports their bat-shit insanity.

What it really boils down to is, if you don't want something, say you don't fucking want it and MEAN IT.

If some gay dude started touching me and hitting on me, even if I'd been drinking, even if I went over because I thought he was just my buddy and didn't know he wanted to hook up with me...do you think for one split second I'd even entertain the idea? Fuck no. Absolutely nothing he could do would deter me from yelling at him, possibly knocking him out, and getting the fuck out of there ASAP.

Any woman who didn't have at least a little interest in hooking up would follow the same path. If you're turning her on, and she obviously likes it and sticks around for more, it's not rape. End of story at least to me.

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You're still ignoring the main point of my response.

This is a really good debate, I see the point Chief is trying to make, but I also know that many social/personal moral and integrity issues come into play. The point I will make is that the girl has as much to do with the determination as the guy does. Some girls are more open to being sexual and sex than others. This could cause confusion in the mindset of guys because many girls are easily seduced and sex is something they want also, while other girls would not normally have a SNL but we as PUA have been trained to work past their defenses and they often have sex with us even if that was not their normal behavior. Does that make it seem rapey? Possibly, and no! A SNL is almost as dangerous as not using a condom during said SNL. Both of them could come back to bite you...

I spent 20 years in the Military and often saw rape/sexual assult charges being pointed at male sailors by female Sailors because the girl regretted it the next day. 99% of the time alcohol was blamed by the girl who said she didn't know what she was doing because she was drunk. My issue with that is that the guy was also drunk! Why would the same defense not be acceptable for the guy? It's because society (USA) deems that it is the man that instigates sexual actions and the girl is only the recipient of those actions. Our society has a double standard regarding this type of issue.

I agree with Skills when he says "Women know exactly what is going to happen if they go home or to the car or a motel with you." But the woman has the ability to change her mind "post facto" and if she does, you're basically screwed (i.e. Mike Tyson).


Peace...

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